Becoming an American: Adrian Otero Vila (AOWS)

May 10, 2020 in interview

Becoming an American: Adrian Otero Vila (AOWS)

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar with you, or your photographic work could you please introduce yourself, and give a quick overview of your work?

Adrian Otero Vila (AOV): I'm Adrian, a Spanish-American full-time photographer. I create black and white images of scenes that leave me in awe, with this work I try to pass along that same emotion to whoever is looking.

ADM: In your preliminary description you state that "Becoming an American" is, in broad strokes about your personal experience picking up and moving to America from Europe - What did you find was your experience moving to america, and how do you find that that experience was documented or captured in your photographs?

AOV: America is so present in our culture that I think most people (from other countries) have some preconceptions about it before even setting foot here. That included me when I moved to the US a few years ago. I had an idea of what I was going to find, and for a little bit, it was pretty accurate. It wasn't until I moved to Oregon that I discovered "the West". There, and away from everything and everyone I knew, I found freedom and peace. Those vast and remote landscapes gave me a sense of loneliness I never knew I needed. The rainforest of Washington, the coast of Oregon, the magnificence of the Rockies in Montana, the deserts of the SW... they were so incredible that I couldn't help it but to capture what I was seeing. At this early stage in my photography, I had no idea what to do with those images besides sharing them with family and friends, and later on Instagram. I felt I had to do it, though, and that created the spark that made me quit my job and become a full-time photographer. Those images are now part of my new book, "Becoming an American", and together, they tell my story, what I saw and the places and experiences that made me who I am today (for better or for worse).

ADM: Per your description, this book is a private photodiary, not initially meant for public consumption - what was the impetus to release the book to the public?

AOV: Over the years, I realized that the most rewarding aspect of sharing my photography is that many people find it inspiring, and it helps them in their own creative journey.

With "Becoming an American", I wanted to share what's behind my photography, a window to a period of my life that changed so much. Hopefully, it will inspire others not only to share their journey, but to embark themselves in a similar adventure.

ADM: Following that up, what was the assembly of the book like for you? Was there a specific "click" moment when the book came together for you while selecting images for it? or did you know from the outset the book would take a specific sequence or form (even if it may not initially have been aimed at the public)?

AOV: I started working on an initial draft of the book almost 4 years ago, from a selection of around 100 photographs. I laid the book out and actually printed out that first version. I kept looking at it and reorganizing the images for weeks, but I ended up putting the project aside.

I kept taking photographs, and when I felt like one might work for this project, I'd add it to the original selection. I ended up with several hundred photographs. It wasn't until last year when I decided to go through them and came up with a collection of 88 images that finally felt *complete*. Now, I had all the pieces I was missing before.

ADM: When going through the book, you periodically intersperse written narrative or recountings alongside the photos - what was your inspiration for including text, and at what point did you incorporate it? Was it always part of the plan for the book?

AOV: Definitely not. I decided to include them as I was putting the book together. There are almost a hundred images in the book, so I thought that a few breaks in between would be good for the reader / viewer, plus it'd help giving some context to the images.

ADM: Your standard (the majority of what I've seen on your IG) photo aesthetic leans very minimal. Did you find it difficult to work on this, or shoot like this alongside the more minimal work that you're known for?

AOV: Quite the opposite! The snapshots I take help me stay inspired during my photography trips, as I'm always looking for something to capture. I also make videos of my outings, which is much more demanding than these snapshots. I still find them useful for the same reason: to keep my creativity flowing.

ADM: You talk about maintaining a creative flow between your two bodies of work - following that - did you find yourself applying what you learned in this Diary project to your more public work, as you shot it. If so, how, and if not why not?

AOV: I used to be focused on a specific destination: I’d drive or hike somewhere, take a few photos, and head back. Now, I don’t dismiss any location beforehand, I find myself being more aware and paying more attention to everything.

ADM: In your trip around the country, was there a specific turning point for you - and was there a photo accompanying that? I know you note your move to Portland as being a huge step, or the ending point for the trip - but was there any other major turning point prior to the conclusion to the trip?

AOV: The trip to Portland was the beginning of my journey. There was no major turning point per se. In hindsight, I'd say it was on a weekend trip to Utah (and back to Portland) when I realized how beautiful this world is and how much I wanted to capture it. Even though I wasn't fully aware of it at the time.

ADM: What was the inspiration, from the outset, to document your trip alongside the main body of work you produced?

AOV: I take a lot of photos everyday, using whatever camera I might have with me. While my main body of work is my "artistic view of the world", those snapshots are a visual diary of sorts. If I make it to old age, those are the images I'll cherish the most.

ADM: What were your influences, photographic or otherwise on the book?

AOV: It's hard to know what or who influences your work, I didn't think of anyone or anything while working on this book. I can only assume, though, that books of a similar theme and style that I liked in the past influenced me in some way. My favorites are "The Americans", by Robert Frank, "American Prospects", by Joel Sternfeld and "Minutes to Midnight", by Trent Parke.

ADM: What advice would you give for someone making a big life change like you did? And, if they're considering taking on a big photographically driven trip, what other advice would you give alongside that.

AOV: Travel light. I was shooting film exclusively during a 2-month long road trip across the US and brought with me not only gear (2 Bronicas SQ-Ai, 5 lenses, 3 film backs and 100 rolls), but also the chemicals needed for developing and the scanner. I definitely regret doing that.

I brought only my small RX100 cameras on my last road trip, across Germany, Austria and Italy. When the gear gets out of the way, you can focus on what you’re capturing.

About life changes, it depends on someone's specific situation. I’m a big advocate of traveling, I believe that getting out of your environment for a while is a very helpful way to get to know yourself better. But going somewhere else won’t make your current problems go away, so be careful.

Over the last few years, I’ve made some decisions that weren’t necessarily the wisest or safest, but I knew if I didn't go for it, I’d regret it for the rest of my life. So I did.

ADM: By way of Charlie Thom, but directly relevant here - What're you working now, or what are you planning, what's the next project or trip?

AOV: Right now, I should have been photographing Iceland and the UK, but I’m stuck in Spain instead due to the virus situation. Besides those islands, I was planning on doing a lot of hiking in the US this summer and fall, plus shooting some winter scenes in the Midwest. We will see if that can still happen.

For now, I’m going through the thousands of photos from past trips, making some videos for my YouTube channel, working on a couple of zines and a new book.

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? you can answer it if you'd like.

AOV: If you could go back in time and stand next to a photographer when they were making an image, which one would it be? For me, that’d be either Koudelka’s image of the dog in the snow, or the photographs of bats and kangaroos from Trent Parke’s “Minutes to Midnight”.

ADM: Thanks for doing the interview! where can people find your work, and purchase copies of the book, as well as your print work?

AOV: Thank you, Andrew! This was fun. My website is the best way to look at my work, and also where the book and prints can be purchased: https://aows.co. I post every day on Instagram (https://instagram.com/aows) and try to upload a couple of videos a week to my YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/aowsphotos).

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Coast to Coast: Charlie Thom

May 03, 2020 in interview

Coast to Coast: Charlie Thom

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who may not be familiar with your work, can you please introduce yourself, and give an overview or introduction to your work?

Charlie Thom (CT): I'm Charlie, a 20-year-old film photographer and university student from Sussex, UK. I have a love for old cameras and visiting new places. I like to think my style of shooting is just "photograph whatever comes to mind". I've never seen myself as having a style as such, but every photographer captures their scene in unique ways and I'm no exception. During my gap year in 2019, I tried and travel as many places as I can as cheaply as possible, and it's taken me on some really memorable adventures. I visited a few places, including Chernobyl where I produced the content for my previous zine, The Nuclear Option, and the USA and Canada, where I produced the content for Coast to Coast.

ADM: We're here talking about Coast to Coast today - what's the concept behind the zine, what was the impetus to put it into a book format?

CT: In August 2019 I travelled to North America for 3 weeks visiting 5 coastal cities, my first time alone in a foreign country with a big bag full of snacks, clothes and cameras to keep me company. While I was there, I knew I wanted to have a final product made out of the pictures I took there but wasn't quite sure what form it would take. I find that happens a lot with my zines and books. I go out, focus on the pictures and then worry about presentation and narrative when I get my pictures back. I feel that way, you tend to stress a lot less about all the little details and just enjoy exploring new places.

ADM: What was the image selection process like for Coast to Coast? Did the images create the book, or did you work backwards from your body of photos?

CT: I didn't realise just quite how many pictures I'd taken until I'd got back and stared at the 700+ frames in Lightroom after hours of processing and scanning. I figured it would be a big, big project to make a zine out of, so I was going to wait till the summer to start working on it - that's when the outbreak occurred, and I thought I should finish it now before it got shelved forever. I thinned these pictures down to just over 70 and it had enough pages to be a paperback book, so I went full steam ahead and designed a pdf for a 66 page photobook. My last project, The Nuclear Option, had a text-based narrative that I felt worked really well due to its historical nature and the short time span I took the pictures in. With this one though, there isn't really much to say - I felt if I captioned a whole book just with stories about myself, it wouldn't be about the pictures anymore. The sheer number of pictures also meant I could divide the book into chapters, one for each city I visited. I think this really breaks up the story nicely and gives it a nice narrative without the use of text.

ADM: What was the specific impetus for your trip to North America, what made you choose the destinations you chose; and how does your book tell or document the trip?

CT: There were a few reasons for choosing America as the destination for my travels: I think the sheer scale of everything is something that really drew me in. The massive sprawling cities and eccentric characters really fascinated me. I'd been to the USA a couple of times before with family, but never had a proper chance to explore on my own and go on a proper adventure. The fact that everyone speaks English too is also a huge help. I chose to visit New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Vancouver and Seattle because they're some of the continent's biggest most interesting coastal cities. If my budget had been a bit bigger, I would love to have visited New Orleans or Portland (while strictly that isn't a coastal city, I guess West Coast still counts), but I was cutting as many corners as I could and had to let them go. Coast to Coast tells the story through chapters. Each chapter is headed with a scan of a Polaroid with a significant landmark in each city, something I already really wanted to do just so I could put them in my print albums. When I got home, I'd realised those Polaroids would be great to break up the book into specific segments and give the project's narrative a bit more structure. I captured everything else that caught my eye on my 1951 Leica iiif on whatever film I could get my hands on - colour and b&w stocks of various brands, expired film, etc. My friend Italo very generously gave me a big bag of assorted film when I met up with him in New York (Thanks Italo!). I shot a lot of street but also landscapes too if my surroundings allowed it. I tried my best to tell stories with each picture, and I feel each chapter really has its own distinctive, unique flavour.

ADM: Following that up, were there any big moments that stood out to you, or "clicked" the book into place when you finally did sit down in front of your scanner?

CT: I learned a lot of things about the United States and its people/culture throughout the whole of this trip. It was very insightful, almost enlightening, to see how different everything is to how it's portrayed on television. To actually see America in person was truly something special, and the people I met along the way were probably the best part of the whole experience. I also learned a lot about myself, how I overcame problems like having my flight home cancelled while I was there, and having to spend 4 hours on a bus through Compton and arriving at LAX airport covered in bleeding bug bites, or missing my Greyhound bus and hitching a free ride on another bus because the driver was a super cool guy. There always seemed to be solutions to the challenges I faced, and I think I got some really good adventures out of some of them. When I got back from the States, I was going to move into my university halls 2 days after I landed, and I don't think I've ever processed and scanned that much film in such a small span of time in my entire life. I also learned how to create a proper scanning and editing workflow, with this amount of film it's near impossible to sort through all the pictures and pick out the best images unless you have a good workflow setup.

ADM: What did you learn, either about your trip, or your photography while editing the book?

ADM: In terms of influence - what would you say your biggest influences on the project were, photographic or otherwise?

CT: Inspiration came from a wide variety of people for this one! I drew influence from a few great zines I have such as Useful Idiocy by Jules Le Moal, Reason for Visit by Nicolas Hagen, Enter Barcelona by Nigel Allison/unevenedits and Zoeld by Illia Popovich, as well as a few others. I also drew inspiration from a few of the classic American photographers of the 20th century: Robert Frank, W. Eugene Smith etc. I also got a lot of advice and second opinions during the production of the book from close friends and fellow photographers, which I'm eternally grateful for!

ADM: I find it a really interesting choice that all of the images are titled, what prompted you to title all your images, and was it difficult to title them?

CT: I've always had a fascination with titles - while I made the choice not to write out all my stories and experiences and focus more on presenting the pictures themselves, I still wanted to give the viewer my own impression of the picture to give it a bit of a personal touch. Another reason I added a black stroke and title on the images was to make the book feel like a miniature gallery. I based most of the captions for the pictures off my Instagram posts, but I changed some of them if they didn't fit the frame well. Presentation to me is one of the biggest parts of producing a zine or book, and I wanted it to feel a bit fancier than my previous works. You'll notice there isn't a single double page spread. While there were pictures I really wanted to print nice and big, I felt it wouldn't be doing them justice if a large portion of the frame was lost to the fold.

ADM: For someone on the fence about making a big, multi stop trip, in a very unfamiliar place - as well as documenting it - what advice would you give?

CT: Don't stress too much! It's not an adventure if you aren't lost. Try not to plan every last detail, just make sure you can get to and from your destination(s), have a place to stay, and have enough money in case anything goes wrong. The best adventures I had on this trip weren't planned, they just happened as I was out exploring the area. It was quite daunting at first when I was planning everything, but once I had everything booked it was really easy from there.

ADM: From Sadie Rose Bailey by way of Sam Lloyd: What other creative outlets do you pursue? And what does it bring you that photography doesn’t?

CT: I really don't have any other creative outlets! I can't draw or play any instruments, my co-ordination is absolutely terrible. I adore photographing bands though. I think being able to photograph a band is the next best thing to being in one. I'm doing a Media Production degree at the moment so I do have some video/audio production experience, and I know my way around photoshop. I also collect records and have a Hi-Fi setup in my bedroom, which has become the saviour of my quarantine lifestyle at the moment.

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? You can answer your own question if you'd like.

CT: Do you have any projects planned after this one? Spill the beans! If this lockdown ends before the summer and I can get a decent amount of shifts before the summer, I really want to travel Scandanavia, especially Norway and Finland.

ADM: Where can people see your work, and purchase your zine?

CT: You can find me on Instagram @charliethom_ or on Facebook at @charliethomphoto. My zine is available through my Etsy shop, a link is available through my Instagram bio. You can also search "charliethom" on Etsy and find my shop that way too.

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PARADISE: Sam Lloyd

April 26, 2020 in interview

PARADISE: Sam Lloyd

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar with you, can you introduce yourself, and your work?

Sam Lloyd (SL): My name is Sam, I'm a tattooer and student of photography in Portsmouth. I shoot both 35 and medium format.

ADM: What's the guiding concept behind Paradise?

SL: The fundamental concept behind Paradise is memory. It's a visual response to growing up in a pretty mundane suburb, as I'm sure many of us did.

ADM: Did you end up finding out anything about your childhood, or the suburban lifestyle through the process of making your zine? How does memory or nostalgia play into what you photographed vs. what you thought you would photograph at the outset of the project?

SL: So the walk is from my Mums house to my friend Gregs house, from the ages of 11-17 this was the longest walk me and friends would have to make at that time. Now it doesn't seem such a tall order, but that's why I chose this route.

On one of my walks photographing for the zine I had Greg with me and we and we discussed in great length what had changed and what remained, who from the past lived where and other places we would frequent as kids. Looking back over the photos in the zine it definitely didn't occur to me (and my memory) just how mundane the backdrop to my childhood was. I guess if you're having a good time with your friends you could be anywhere. Saying that, I did come across a lot of odd and misplaced things!

The main element of memory/nostalgia in the zine is the sequence of the walk. I like that the relevance of it all is only really known to me. I must admit when I came on to this idea I was pretty set on how I would conduct it, but I haven't been back there in a few years so I had no preconceptions on what I would shoot and how.

ADM: What got you into the zine or book format?

SL: I'm an avid collector of books and previously made a DIY zine showcasing my creative peers. When they announced the "quarantine" or what ever I just got busy and finalised the project, I thought it might be nice to share something with my friends while they're stuck inside.

ADM: Interesting - what would you say your favorite or most influential books have been (photographic or otherwise), and why?

SL: 10 years ago or so I was really into collecting the free copies of Vice magazine that you'd find in selected stores, they were pretty eye opening as to what kinds of photography went to print and who was out there. It was obviously unlike anything I had been shown at A level in college. As for favourite books, that's tough, but i'd have to say Roger Ballen. I have a few of his now and I just love how he incorporates illustration, sculpture, portraiture and chaos!

ADM: What was the shooting and image selection process like for Paradise?

SL: I took out a Hasselblad with trusty HP5 an retraced a walk I commonly made as child, I needed to structure my ideas and this seemed like a fitting ritual to follow for my project. The images you find on full bleed in the zine are from a roll I put through a Holga circa 2008/9, I couldn't believe my luck when I came across the negatives and it was a really nice touch to the sequence.

ADM: Going from Holga to Hasselblad is quite a stretch - how do you think working with toy cameras influenced your image-making, and can you speak a little more on how contrasting the holga images from over ten years ago played into the zine? I find it interesting because a lot of the holga images center on your friends rather than the topographics you lived in.

SL: That does sound like a stretch put like that! I've never been too precious about what camera/film combo i'm using, I was an avid car boot sale raider as a kid and bought anything I found that wasn't already home. I strongly believe anyone can make a thoughtful image with any camera. I've recently come across a few people shooting Holga still with amazing result!

The Holga images I came across clearing out my spare room and I'm glad I did. My initial idea was to respond to a rather large instax collection I have amounted from that same period of time. I wanted the reader to encounter them along this this walk I had put together as they were flash backs. I wasn't really happy with how the instax sat with my photographs, so when I found the negs in black and white and square format I really lucked out, not to mention they also captured Greg and his brother whom lived at the end of my walk.

I chose only the photos from the roll that featured people so they had some kind of continuity on their own.

ADM: Also re: the layout - what prompted you to set it up so that the modern images are plainly laid out, with plenty of buffer against the holga images which are full bleed? is there a deeper significance to that?

SL: I wanted it to be obvious and quite abrupt that you are encountering a "flash back" or something from the past to break up the sequence a bit, so the full bleed was to enhance that abrasion and difference. I left a lot of white space and one image to a spread to encourage the reader to take their time with each image, like a slow walk or something.

ADM: What did you learn, putting the Paradise zine together - is there anything you'd do differently on the next zine?

SL: I think I had it pretty easy with this particular project due to nature of the sequence being a walk, but it was a learning curve curating a single body of work opposed to my previous zines which were collaborative!

In regards to doing things differently in the future, I would like to play with different layouts and sequences. Not because I'm unhappy with anything in Paradise, but it's nice to have a new challenge!

ADM: When you talk about growing up in the suburbs - is there a particular memory that you're trying to communicate to the reader - or like a specific piece of nostalgia that might escape the viewer?

SL: I honestly don't have an agenda with this. It's very much "my truth" and more of a shared experience with the reader. I guess it just is what it is to some extent, to some it might be relatable and others a window into another way of life.

ADM: From Sadie Rose Bailey - what other creative outlets do you pursue? And what does it bring you that photography doesn’t?

With tattooing i'm constantly drawing drawing, so in many ways photography is my outlet from that. I'm currently painting a lot of flash and have been playing with cyanotype printing. I'm quite lucky to have a close friend who enjoys artsy stuff too, so we're always playing with new mediums, chasing the next high!

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? You can answer it yourself if you'd like.

SL: I think you should carry that last question over, is that allowed? I'd be interested to know what other stuff camera nerds were into!

ADM: Sure, I can let that question ride! Where can we see your more of your work, and order copies of Paradise (if there are any left?)

SL: So my photography is at @fortyeighteighteen on Instagram, I have not deemed myself worthy of website just yet. Copies of the zine are on acidbathvampire.bigcartel.com where you pick up some of my paintings and prints also. I will be ordering another batch of zines this weeks, I had no idea people would actually buy them!

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Andrew D. McClees in Conversation with Jack Nichols: Rebirth BFA Thesis show, Queerness, Art History, and Future Plans

April 19, 2020

Andrew D. McClees in Conversation with Jack Nichols: Rebirth BFA Thesis show, Queerness, Art History, and Future Plans

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Hi Jack, for those that aren't familiar with you or your work, can you please describe it?

Jack Nichols (JN): Hey!!!! So for my current thesis, I’m drawing inspirations from fourteenth and fifteenth century artworks, investigating the homoerotic gaze and the intersections of queerness and sexuality in the divine image all through film photography and chromogenic printing processes.

ADM : How many images are making it into the final show? Do they follow a series, or is it a non linear collection?

JN: So, the exhibit will contain 7 images. They’re totally part of a body of work. Each is from a different painting, but they are all part of a series. Some of the images are series of three or four, but the show only contains one photograph from each series. For example, the Birth series is a collection of three images, but for the thesis show, I only decided upon using one image. Does that make sense?

ADM: It does! You mentioned doing the series entirely on Chromogenic Print. Is there any specific significance to that? Also, what was the shooting and planning process like? You make reference to 14th and 15th century paintings, can you speak on those, and what compelled you to comment on them?

JN: Oh my God, yea, totally! So in the beginning of the school year, I was considering doing a show around technology and identity and curating a body of work from other artists, but that was difficult to find people doing that who weren’t FAMOUS, you know? So, I decided upon doing my own show of my own work. Also at that time, I was finding it difficult feeling comfortable in the film process in such a technologically driven age. I was reading Anton Vidokle’s Art Without Death: Conversations on Russian Cosmism and throughout the interviews, he mentions the resurgence of old processes in relation to creating new processes and whether or not there should be a coexisting environment and I found that phenomenal. I was beginning to feel really comfortable doing a really old, outdated, and non taught process. Film also is such an incredibly intimate process compared to other forms of visual creation and this intimacy too was something I was really looking forward to outside of my art life (in my personal life). The shooting was something intimate, too. I’m literally the only person in the room, whether it’s in the lighting studio, my bedroom, or my dining room. Self portraiture is something super intimate and self explorative. So, posing, holding the shutter release, advancing the film, processing, and printing are all of the same.

So, I was brought up very agnostic, but I identify as very atheist, but with my dad having an art background and my mother’s obsession with religious imagery, the decision to recreate these images was something out of pure interest. Also, simultaneously, the museum I’m a security guard at (Contemporary Arts Center) was hosting the first, large retrospective of Robert Colescott who had a period of his life, where he was recreating all of these old paintings and replacing them with black figures. I wanted to examine my queer identity and recontexualize these figures with my queer body. Also, if you look into all of these old paintings, They are GAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. There’s so much hidden homoerotic imagery in these paintings, so making them outright queer and gay was something I was interesting in exploring.

ADM: So, what are the key images to understanding your project, or the entry points into it? And why those images?

JN: I definitely am not trying to make my images explicitly easy to understand, so with that, I want the people who know their art history to view my art, that’s my audience. But a strong gay/LGBTAI+ dialouge is something I’m also considering in my art. If we look at my Mother photograph, I think I chose the first to be a part of the show. It shows my dead corpse laid across my bed. It refers back to the famous Pieta mother done first by Michaelangelo then my many other artists, such as Berlinde de Bruyckère and Kathë Kollwitz. But it also refers to Felix González-Torres’ and his billboard series, in which he photographs impressions of figures on empty beds. The photographs refer to the thousands upon thousands of deaths during the HIV/AIDS epidemic of the 1980’s and ‘90’s and that’s something I was totally thinking about. The bed is such an important element to my history and experience of growing up gay, that this photography/series was really important in investigating. That’s also seen throughout other photographs, but I digress.

ADM: In the beginning of the interview you noted that many of the 14th and 15th century paintings being "Gay," but perhaps not hyperexplicitly so. What does the explicitness mean to you, in this context? Also more largely what are the theory implications for you of reclaiming the queerness of the images through a modern queer photographic and printing lens?

JN: So, if we look at a lot of paintings, especially the ones of Saint Peter and Saint Paul, they’re explicitly embacing each other and it can be read to be quite gay, even though that wasn’t the original implications of them doing that. They were the two saints who would walk around and spread the word of God. However, if we look at much of the depictions of the murdering of Saint Sebastian, there is such a heavy dialogue around the eroticism and romanticism of his death. He’s often seen tied onto a column with multiple arrows shot throughout his body, he’s literally in the act of dying. If we look at his face in comparison to his body, he’s almost embracing it; in love with the pain. This masochistic embrace of pain is something that is deeply rooted throughout much of Renaissance art, but is heavily adopted in much of gay artworks. Robert Mapplethorpe, Tom of Finland, Keith Haring are all these gay artists who did this. This eroticism of pain and death was really quite drawing to me. So again, like the Mother series, my I am Saint series contained both this art historical context, as well as this gay historical context. In artworks that were commisioned heavily to a religion that was pretty homophobic, this reclaiming of these gay/queer dialouges were super important to me. Unlike the artists of those times (who were majority gay) I am able to come out and explicitly own my identity and these dialogues. I’m a bit confused on the “theory implications” of reclaiming queerness. Could you elaborate or did I already answer it?

ADM: What I’m trying to get at is how does this work fit into the greater queer art context or conversation, currently, in the post modern world?

JN: I think my art totally has a difficult time fitting into the “postmodern” world, you know? But, if we look into the definition of “post-modern,” there’s a lot of discussion around truth and that there is no “Truth” anymore. Photography has such a strong relationship to truth, especially in terms of Barthes and many other theorists. To me, my art fits into the post-modern age simply for my investigations around truth of these 14th and 15th century artworks and discovering the many hidden homoerotic dialogues. This “insertion” of queerness into these works and my works does that, as well. Even though my process isn’t revolutionary or groundbreaking, it still holds this investigation and dialogue around “Truth.”

ADM: This is definitely a complete body of work, and definitely one that benefits from viewing and thinking about it by one’s self. So what’s next for you? Will you continue to explore themes of religion and queerness, or do you think you’ll pivot into a wholly different set of themes for your next body of work? Will you continue to do Chromogenic prints, or will you explore new (to you) processes?

JN: So, this is something I’ve been debating a lot recently. I’m going to the Pratt Institute for my MFA in photography this fall. I love darkroom and everything you get in a darkroom print versus a digital print, but recently I’ve started doing these really interesting photographs of myself rendered through this 3D modeling application on my phone. I’m exploring these issues and ideas surrounding subjectivity in the digital age and some of the photographs are art historical reinditions. So, I think the investigations of queerness and subjectivity will just be translated into digital rather than dialogue, but I don’t know. I love film so much, but this app is so fun, lol. It’s the first time I’m hardcore debating a complete aesthetic shift, you know?

ADM: Admittedly, I’m not super familiar? My biggest push/pull has been committing to just color or black and white, so that’s relatively speaking, small potatoes, compared to working in digital, about digital representation. That makes a lot of sense though - digital is definitely where a lot of the more interesting statements are being made these days - what or who are your biggest influences in that realm, and do you think some of that digital work, perhaps not even photographic, looped around to fuel your analog based portfolio?

JN: I know!!! It’s such a weird thing for me. I’ve been doing darkroom for four years now and I know almost everything there is and I know barely anything about digital processes. OH 100% Matthew Stone, Björk, Arca, and Kim Gordon have been such huge inspirations in the way I discuss beauty, love, intimacy, and their body. They all work digitally, so for me to translate that has been really fun and interesting. I love that I can do that. The more and more I think about it, I really want to stick to film, but there’s that tiny little voice in the back of my head that says, do itttttttttt go digital. It’ll be fun to see what happens in New York. It’s a totally different art scene.

ADM: Purely out of curiosity (and it is definitely tangentially related) - are you familiar with Ada Lovelace?

JN: The Writer?

ADM: The mother of computing. Probably also a writer, but I mainly know her from an engineering standpoint. Way back in the 1800’s she contributed to the first computers, or like pre-computer tech and understanding of computational systems. Actually up until, I’m not 100% sure when, women used to be fairly common in tech. But at any rate I feel like you’d get a lot out material or inspiration out of her life. Also in a stroke of irony, I believe she was Lord Byron’s daughter.

JN: OH wow, she’s a bad bitch!!! I love it, haha! But I literally know NOTHING about computers or tech stuff, so I feel like it would be “real” enough for me to start making digital work, haha.

There’s a lot of fashion photographers and commercial photographers shooting film, but I don’t know a lot of FAMOUS contemporary artists who are shooting film. So I think sticking to film and being in NYC, maybe I could be the leading artist reintroducing film to this post-modern/ post-internet era. Translating issues and ideas from post-internet artists is pretty post-internet if you ask me.

ADM: Post-Post-Internet, if you’ll allow me the dad joke?

JN: Hahahahahaha! Post-analouge-post-modern-post-internet-post-post-internet lol

ADM: I’m dead. Anyway, what got me thinking of Ada Lovelace was that one could probably reinterpret old processes or past thoughts in a digital arena. Sidestepping that - will you put together a book or zine, or just a summary document before you leave for new york? Or would you ever consider working in a book format?

JN: In Cincinnati, the zine/book scene here is definitely a completely different scene than what I’m used to, so I don’t think I would here, but NYC is such a large scene that I would love to and try exploring.

ADM: What’s your advice on, or what did you learn, exploring and reclaiming older paintings - and what advice would you give on creating a tight set of images for a print exhibition?

JN: I learned a lot about how history affects the present. When I first started taking photographs, I was just copying, but throughout more investigations, essays, and conversations, I really got into these hidden meanings and dialogues. They’re super important in who we are and how we express our identities.

ADM: Where can people see the final show, now that covid-19 has shut down basically everything? Also where can they see the rest of your work? - Thanks for doing the interview

JN: Oh God, these seniors are PISSED. One of the professors will be taking shots of the show and post them on the Art Academy’s website, but I will also be uploading them on my instagram/website. @holyunrest._ and jacknichols.net

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Two Point Oh/Sorry You're Not on The Itinerary: Sadie Rose Bailey

April 12, 2020

Two Point Oh/Sorry You're Not on the Itinerary: Sadie Rose Bailey

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Hi Sadie, for those that aren't familiar with you or your work, could you introduce yourself, and give an overview of your work?

Sadie Rose Bailey (SRB): Yes hi, hello! My name is Sadie Rose Bailey. I was born in London but currently live in Los Angeles and I’m younger than I feel. My work, or my art as I’d prefer to call it, is based around black and white self processed film photography. I’ve dabbled in everything from portraiture to landscapes, skate to surf and music, music and more music. But my favorite thing to photograph is the life I lead and the people I choose to surround myself with.

ADM: What was the motivation, or impetus behind Sorry You're not on the Itinerary, and Two Point, Oh?

SRB: I’m very sentimental and wanted a platform to “immortalize” the memories I’m making. That’s why I love print publishing. Being given the opportunity to forever encapsulate the moments I hold so dear to me is an absolute blessing.

ADM: Definitely! that makes a lot of sense -we're definitely big fans of print publishing over here - what got you into print publishing and putting zine/book projects together?

SRB: There was a little boom in the “zine scene” back in London a few years ago. There was a handful of us that would put together group projects, publish solo projects, throw little art shows in DIY spaces... it was a lot of fun. And It was a great way to appreciate art without having to deal with the pretentious art school / gallery side of things. Everyone was roughing it up, smashing beers, tattooing each other and making art.

ADM: What's your shooting and image selection process like for your zines - It strikes me that both "Sorry" and "Two Point, Oh" were both shot on trips - is there a specific significance to that?

SRB: My day to day life has been a fucking rollercoaster the past two years. I moved myself halfway across the world not knowing what I was throwing myself into and have had to navigate it blind (figuratively). The life I’m living has changed so drastically in such a small amount of time, so being able to take a step back and go on trips gives me the chance to finally breathe and soak it all up. I can get so overwhelmed by the “figuring it all out” aspect of starting fresh that I haven’t been as vigilant with shooting my day to day - which is why my main focus has been a few of the trips I’ve taken.

ADM: That tracks - are there any trips on the horizon? and based on what you're saying, do you think you'll start documenting your day to day more, going forward?

SRB: I’d love to plan a trip but I feel like the whole world is going on lockdown. I’d like to go back out to Texas with my buddy this summer and my best friend just moved to Florida which would be an interesting experience to document.

And yes. I’m finally starting to feel comfortable being ~ me ~ and feel like I’m more inclined to pick up a camera and start documenting the little things than I was before. I’m excited for that.

ADM: Are you working on a new project currently, or do you generally shoot out of sequence?

SRB: I don’t make the projects, the projects make me. So I have no idea! We’ll have to wait and see.

ADM: Sorry You're Not on the Itinerary is a great title, how did you come up with it, and what's the concept behind that zine, or what prompted the trip?

SRB: ‘Sorry You’re Not on the Itinerary’ is a play on the fact that not only did I write (and stick to) an actual itinerary for both this trip and the ones to follow - but sometimes people feel entitled to your time and effort and you don’t need to constantly bend over backwards to fit them in.

But to my friends it was more just a joke on the fact that I am super organized (annoyingly organized) and wrote a fucking day by day itinerary for a skate road trip.

The trip was just a bunch of kids on the road having a fucking crazy time. Sam Cashmore, who’s like a little brother to me, flew over from England to come visit me a few months after I had moved to LA and together, joined by two friends I had met at work, we embarked on this wild ride. No expectations, just fun. And an itinerary, of course.

ADM: What was the image selection process like for that zine? Were there any particular images that clicked the order or the overall vision into place for you?

SRB: The photographs follow the timeline of the itinerary. It would feel unjust to have it any other way. And in regards to selecting the images- you can shoot a roll of 36 frames and only like one shot. That’s photography. So the process was to just shoot as much as I could, as often as I could (I was the solo-driver of the trip so I was limited at times), and then select the best.

ADM: What've been some of the big influences on your art, photographic or otherwise?

SRB: The film photography community on Instagram was a massive influence to me when I first started shooting. It gave me a sense of support and belonging that I couldn't find otherwise. But having since taken a step back from that realm of the internet, I’ve been starting to find inspiration from all other aspects of life. Not necessarily just photography. I don’t believe that my art is limited to just photography and therefore I don’t rely purely on photography to inspire me. Music is a big one. It really makes me feel.

ADM: Do you often find yourself listening to music while out shooting, or alternately editing projects? - Any particular album or playlist recommendations?

SRB: Never when I’m out shooting. I don’t like to separate myself like that. I like to know what’s going on at all times. But I have music on at the house all day, every day. Sometimes softly playing throughout the night if I can’t sleep well.

My most frequently played album as on recently is ‘Ultra’ - Depeche Mode.

ADM: What advice would you give to someone on the fence about doing a trip like one of yours, and documenting it?

SRB: Make sure you know where your days are starting and where they’re ending, but let everything in between just fall into place.

ADM: What's one question you have for the next photographer? - You can answer it if you'd like.

SRB: My question for the next photographer is - what other creative outlets do you pursue? And what does it bring you that photography doesn’t?

ADM: Where can people see your artwork and pick up copies of your zines? will you be repressing "Sorry You're not on the Itinerary"? -- it currently lists as sold out?

SRB: I removed all of my photography from my instagram because I spend too much time and effort shooting and self-developing film for it to be thrown up onto an app that people scroll thru to kill time. All of my photography, or at least the photography I want to share, can be seen in print.

And no. Once a project is sold out, that’s it. Print publishing is an investment and by refraining from saturating the market with one project, it forces me to buckle down and make more art. My newest project, ‘Two Point, Oh’ is available to purchase via my website www.sadierosebailey.com and you can also reach out to me via email with any questions too.

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DARK TREES: Drew Sangria

April 05, 2020

DARK TREES: Drew Sangria

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those not familiar with you or your work, can you introduce yourself and briefly describe your work?

Drew Sangria (DS): I consider myself an emerging photographer most interested in exploring the medium as a way to fulfill a need to be creative as an artist. I use photography as an excuse to get out into the world. All of my work is within the realm of documentary with an emphasis on creating a subjective vision of the world around me.

ADM: What's the concept behind Dark Trees?

DS: In Dark Trees I wanted to work around some of the more ambiguous photos I have taken within the past year. I like pictures that are not easily read that challenge the viewer. Work that is wrapped up too neatly with a specific concept does not generally interest me. With this book I wanted to create some sort of broken narrative that has the ability to bring multiple interpretations based on the viewer. The images in the book act as metaphors that create connections and parallels throughout. Even though my photographs are unstaged and real, I wanted to create some sort of fictional mystery world in Dark Trees. Some of the themes explored in the book include class, despair, longing and greed.

ADM: That definitely reads clearly - were there any images or moments that the central (enigmatic) narrative clicked into place for you?

DS: The narrative is still a mystery to me, being far from straightforward I don't even fully understand it, I think it is impossible and not really meant to be completely understood. Ten different viewers might have ten different interpretations. I feel like the challenge of trying to make some kind of sense of it all is one of the pleasures of looking at art. I cant really say that there was a single image that made things click. I think that the themes intertwined in the work were subconsciously in my head before I even took a lot of the photos.

ADM: You're based out of Sacramento, correct? How did you find that that shaped the work you made, and continue to make?

DS: Yes. Within the past years there has been a lot of growth and wealth flooding the city yet meanwhile the homeless/transient issue has increased considerably. With the introduction of prop 47 in California, theft and drug use has also skyrocketed. I tend to gravitate to the the underbelly of the city so I guess the current state of things has made it more interesting for me. I feel like the city of Sacramento and also outlying areas of the county offer a plethora of subject matter for me to work with.

ADM: What was the image selection and shooting process like for Dark Trees?

DS: My shooting process is intuitive, most of the time I don't even know why I am attracted to taking certain pictures. I shoot first and ask questions later, and am a firm believer in learning by doing. When I go out I'm not really looking for anything specific, I like to keep my eyes open to everything around me instead of restricting my perception of the world.

As for image selection, that's where I feel the artistic part of it all comes into play. I believe the editing and sequencing of photos is just as or even more important than the act of taking photos. I started with a bunch of photos then made cuts and eventually ended up with 23 that I felt worked well together. The book is mixture of diptychs and also images that stand alone. For the overall sequence I took it one page at a time to establish some sort of flow based on my personal vision of the work.

ADM: Fascinating - what's your shooting process or routine like (are you a dedicated shoot-day shooter, or do you fit your photography into your daily life)? You mention shooting first, then considering the images later, but what gets you out shooting?

DS: I have to fit shooting into my daily life, I don't have the luxury of being able to just take photographs whenever I want to. I have a job and two small children that I attend to during the week. I usually get one dedicated day on the weekends to go out and shoot. I do bring my camera with me wherever I go during the week just in case I happen to stumble across something interesting.

As an artist I struggle with self doubt quite a bit and a lot of times I don't even feel like going out to shoot. I have learned to fight those feelings and just get out and shoot regardless of how I may feel at the moment. To me taking a good photo is like taking a drug, a hit of excitement, a fix that keeps me going, I guess you could say the act of shooting is what keeps me shooting in a sense.

ADM: What was the impetus for Dark Trees, or what made you decide to put it together?

DS: To be honest with you, I had a voucher from this book printing company Blurb.com for $80 and it was about to expire. I had also been wanting to put something together for quite a while before this. Since time was of the essence, I only spent a few days pulling images together for Dark Trees. I generally like to spend more time sequencing images, but in a sense it was refreshing to work within a strict time constraint and not overthink the whole process.

ADM: I respect the self-taught, learn by doing mentality - what would you say your biggest influences were for dark trees, photographic or otherwise?

DS: A few of the many photographers that have been an inspiration to me include, William Eggleston, and Gregory Halpern. I love Eggleston's ability to pull darkness from the ordinary and banal. Not everyone gets his work, but it has really resonated with me. I am obsessed with Gregory Halpern's work, mainly his projects "A" and "ZZYZX". I discover something new every time I pick up one of his books no matter how many times I have looked at them.

ADM: What's next? Do you have more plans to do (or are you working on) more zines or a book?

DS: I plan to continue shooting and building an archive of photos that I can someday incorporate into more books and zines. I also have an ongoing series on my website entitled "Survival" that I would like to turn into a full book eventually.

ADM: What advice would you give someone on intuiting a narrative for their photos, or assembling one - mysterious/broken or not?

DS: Let your work tell you what the narrative should be. Make a bunch of small prints of your photographs and lay them out on a table and spend some time experimenting with sequencing and pairing. This will aid in making connections within your work and help crystallize a narrative. Also, knowing who and what came before you can be helpful, study other photo books to see how they have been put together.

ADM: Do you have any parting words? also where can people view your work, and pick up a copy of Dark Trees?

DS: Create art for yourself, not anyone else. I have more work up on my website drewsangria.com. Dark trees is available to purchase here.

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Game Trails: Jay Neely

March 28, 2020 in interview

Game Trails: Jay Neely

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Can you introduce yourself and describe your photographic work?

Jay Neely (JN): My name is Jay Neely and I'm a photographer and art director based out of Leavenworth, Washington. I’ve been shooting photos and making books for about 10 years now. My work has largely been inspired by my environment and tends to evolve with my interests and curiosity. Because of this, my work has ranged from conceptual still lives to pseudo documentary and everything in between. That said, I’m primarily project, or concept driven... if I think an idea could make for a series, or a book, I usually pursue it even if it doesn’t fit in the realm of things I’ve done in the past.

ADM: In broad strokes, what is landscape photography to you?

JN: For me, I think landscape photography is primarily about environment and context. A good landscape is the stage for something else that’s happening. Photographs by nature are still representations of a place, or a moment and I think for me, great photographs (in general) imply movement, conversation, or interaction in a way. When I think about landscape photographs that have moved me... the compositional elements of course are there, but I’m really more interested in how the image employs my imagination to see something else that is taking place in that space. Todd Hido talks about this in regard to his houses at night. He talks about how his work really isn’t about a house on a street corner, it’s about what’s taking place behind the glowing windows... the things you can’t see. I think that same idea resonates with me about good landscapes.

ADM: What was the inspiration to put together Game Trails?

JN: A couple of years ago, I started hunting big game in an attempt to be more self sufficient and to build a closer relationship with my food. It has proven to be one of the most important, difficult and meaningful journey’s I’ve embarked on. That said, the way that I interact with the natural world has changed pretty dramatically since I started hunting. Everything is important... every footprint, broken twig, flower, bush etc... anything can be a clue and whether I’m hunting, or not, I find my self paying a lot more attention.

One of the most immediate signs that game is in the area is a series of game trails. These game trails connect these animals to their primary needs - bedding areas, food sources and water. They can switchback up a hillside with impressive efficiency and most often they’re frequented by a myriad of different animals. This series is really a topographic study of these systems. Aesthetically and by design, the similarities between game trails and our own transportation pathways are pretty uncanny. They tell similar stories and they serve a similar purpose and I think this sort of Human / Nature connection is really what I’m most interested in.

ADM: While the photos in Game Trails do document and focus on the titular Trails, the photos have a very textural quality -- was that intentional?

JN: Absolutely, I think the thing that was initially striking to me about game trails was their imprint on the landscape. They cut up the mountains in a super interesting way ... particularly as the mid-day sun hits the hillside - they almost glow in the sagebrush. I feel like when I’m working with subjects that fall into the mundane, it’s important to me to try to photographically point out the thing that caught my eye.

ADM: It's interesting that you bring up natural topography vs. humanity - that's not something I see dealt with very often - did you find that the game trails were often interfered with by humans?

JN: Yes and no... Most of the places that I was hunting were far enough off the beaten path that I wasn’t running into many boot prints. In areas with established man-made trail systems, you’ll definitely find an intersection between the two, which can be quite interesting. In a lot of ways, animal motivations are very similar to that of humans, so the trail systems can lead you to similar places. Game animals find security in elevation, and they require a clear path between food and water which often times mirror the points of interest on common hiking trails. In the wilderness, a person can certainly use game trails to their advantage. If you’re far from a trailhead and you need to get to the top of a mountain, or find a water source, a well trafficked game trail can be a good place to start.

ADM: The choice to shoot the project in black and white is an interesting one, which succeeds in the book. How did you settle on black and white for your images?

JN: When it comes to my personal projects, black and white is really the only way that I’ve ever worked. I was exclusively a black and white film photographer in art school and printing really taught me the depth of a black and white image. I keep telling myself that I’m going to do a color project, but I still have so much to learn in black and white that I feel like I’ll be on this path for a while longer. Aside from that, when I was putting this book together, I was thinking a lot about Robert Adam’s, Along Some Rivers. Adam’s book is an elegant and meditative series of black and white landscapes taken in the Pacific Northwest. The images really feel less about the things in the frame and more about the feeling of being in that place. I think that idea really struck me and a sentiment that I tried to capture in my images. So much of hunting is about being in places that people are not and I think that solace and immersion into the landscape brings about an attentive calmness that I felt was communicated best in black and white.

ADM: What was the shooting and editing process like for Game Trails? did you make your images as you hunted, or did you make dedicated trips to photograph the trails separate from your hunts?

JN: It was a little bit of both, but most of these images were taken while I was hunting. Particularly during the early season, there is a tremendous amount of down time during the middle of the day when the animals are bedded down. Usually you find yourself traveling from one ridge to another ridge, or perched patiently on the side of a hill waiting for the forest to come alive again. It’s a beautiful time to be in the woods and it proved to be a perfect time for me to make these images.

ADM: I agree that it's important to work in series, as well as to make photographs where the focus is about what's not seen - do you have any advice or insight into how to impart that sense of "hidden" narrative?

JN: I believe that narrative can come before, or after a photograph is taken and I think it’s really about defining process. I think my biggest piece of advice would be to first study the work that has been done before. Look at books, read interviews with photographers, artists, filmmakers... Really get an understanding of what you’re attracted to (aesthetically and conceptually) and why. Learn about a variety of processes and take the parts that work and build a way of working that keeps you working. From there, it’s about developing and following your photographic instincts.

For me, I’ve learned that my best work happens when my intentions are loose to begin with. Sometimes I find a thing that is conceptually and visually interesting and I can immediately find a narrative and the book basically unfolds in my head... this is ideal and rarely happens. That said, most of the time, I’ll photograph something, or a series of things that are aesthetically compelling and then from there, I’ll research the subject and let the narrative emerge... it’s sort of a process of discovery... and it’s where a lot of my best work has come from.

ADM: Where can people see your work, and purchase Game Trails, and other books of yours?

JN: You can find my work at www.jaythomasneely.com and on instagram @jaythomasneely

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SMALL ABYSS: Chris San Nicolas

March 22, 2020 in interview

SMALL ABYSS: Chris San Nicolas

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar with you or your work, can you introduce yourself and give an overview?

Chris San Nicolas (CSN): Hello, I'm Chris. I'm 26 years old, I live in Long Beach, CA, and I've been practicing photography for about 4 years. I started off bringing disposable cameras on trips and eventually grabbed my own 35mm camera, and it's been a steady and constant progression since then. I shoot a mix of street photography, landscape, and occasionally portraits. I don't shoot with an end goal or a specific photo in mind, I take photos as I go about living my life. I see all of the work as autobiographical in nature - with an overarching desire to represent life honestly, as I see it.

ADM: What was the impetus to put together and publish Small Abyss - also will it be a series - there is a "1" on the spine? A bit of an aside - I thought it was really cool how you used the frame marker 1 for that.

CSN: I made a small zine a year into my start with photography and wanted to make another that was more representative of the work I've been making the past 3 years. Since it spanned a longer period of time and I wanted it to be more complex - physically and conceptually - I decided on a small book. In actuality I've been wanting to make a book for a long time, but around November of 2019 I finally thought up a concept that I believed served as an appropriate and interesting vehicle for this period of work.

I don't intend Small Abyss itself to be a series, but the next book/large zine project will have a frame marker for 2 on it - so more of a numbering system for main projects. Thanks, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't partially get the idea from the cover of that Forte Collab Zine you curated a while back.

ADM: I know that the project, while definitely focused, and the photos are well chosen for it - is compiled from photos taken over the last three years - what was the selection process like? Did you find yourself taking more from a specific time period, or end up using more recent photos over older ones?

CSN: The project developed backwards in a way, with the title coming first and being the impetus for the whole project. I knew I wanted to make a large-ish cumulative project but a subject or theme didn't jump out at me just by looking through my photo archives, nor did a project based on one subject or type of photograph particularly interest me. When I was taking the first steps into the project (still unnamed) I was thinking a lot about how individuals perceive reality - how no one's personal experience can perfectly match up with another's, even if they experience the same events. That thought thread led to the title Small Abyss which (though it has many meanings) is a rebuttal to the line "No man is an island" from John Donne's Devotions Upon Emergent Occassions.

I let those competing ideas inform my selections as I looked through all the b&w work I've made since 2016. Since the theme was an exploration of an idea rather than a physical object or space or specific story, I was able to be creative in what photos I chose. I also wanted the interplay between the photos to be an integral part of the project, so I (painstakingly) cut a few of my favorite photographs I've made from the project because it didn't fit the theme or fit well with the photos in the project that did. I ended up choosing more recent photos than older but that's mostly because I took more pictures in 2019 than any other year. I printed ~200 photos in 4"x6" and taped them to my wall and let the layout create itself in a way. I knew I wanted the majority of the spreads to have one photo on the left and one on the right and function as pairs - one of the ways the photos interplay with each other. I also realized halfway through that I wanted there to be a progression that made sense with how the project exists as a book (which made me go back and change a lot of the pairings). I used this framework to guide the actual layout. It was a really iterative and organic process and though it was really fun, it was also frustrating and took a long time.

ADM: In response to how you Assembled the zine: Did you hand print all the 4x6 prints? Also how did you come up with that process of putting the photos on the wall, and constructing your pairs from there - and how do you think that shaped your process rather than doing the process via sorting on a computer, or straight into a layout program?

CSN: No I used CVS for convenience and cost. I wasn't concerned with quality for these prints because they were more an intermediate form of the project. I've always been a fan of tactile processes, so I'm not sure that I can pinpoint a moment where I thought of using a wall. I think it's always made sense and been an aspiration for as long as I wanted to make a book of photographs. The final product was majorly influenced by this process. I had this birds-eye view of the whole project where every loose connection or interesting interplay would draw my eye like the movements of small critters in a large grassy field. When I saw these connections, I could immediately move the photos next to each other, replace one of them with another that works but in a different way, compare them to other pairings and so on with a speed and physicality that I don't know how to reproduce with a digital process. Screens are only so big and there's a trade-off between scope (how many elements you can see at at once) and detail (how clearly you can see each element) which are largely eliminated if you have a wall, prints, and mobility. Maybe I don't know how to use digital tools effectively enough, but I can never experiment as quickly on a computer with the mixing and matching described above and I had the added benefit of seeing the physicality of the photographs. With the goal being a book, this was invaluable. A lot of these frames I had only seen as scans on a screen and I was surprised by how many photographs that I had enjoyed initially, did not hold up when printed.

ADM: The book contains a fairly intricate balance of landscapes (vernacular and traditional) with intimate portraits, and candid glimpses into other lives - how did you strike this balance this, and is there a particular significance to it?

CSN: As I mentioned before, an overarching goal for my photography is to represent life genuinely and I wanted this project to embody all the varied experiences in life. I used the balance of all of these kinds of photos as a way to do that. To reinforce this, I jumped around in scale a lot, for example going immediately from a close up of something tiny to a large sweeping landscape. And though the project doesn't stick to a single type of photo, there's a lot of repetition but also contrast in motifs throughout. A lot of the spreads present two similar things in different ways or two very different things in similar ways - like some kind of oxymoron. This ordered chaos is how I see life and I hope that feeling comes across.

ADM: Was there a particular moment or photo, or even pair of photos - that the overall concept "clicked" into focus for you?

CSN: It wasn't with the photos that the concept clicked. There were two breakthrough points for me. The first was when I wrote the first draft of the poem (or 3 poems depending on how you look at it) in the beginning of the book. I had even used the phrase "No man is an island" in that first draft, which was taken out later.

The second breakthrough was when I was deciding on the overall structure of the book. Initially I wanted the book to be able to be read left to right (normally) as well as outside-in, where you'd start with the inside covers and turn a page on each side in until you reached the middle spread. The idea was for these outside-in "spreads" would work as mirrors or opposites of each other. The main gripe I had was that people don't read books like that and if I'm doing something that weird, it has to reinforce or add to the concept in a meaningful way. I scrapped the idea and played around with a few more related ideas until deciding on one. The final layout has a sense of progression that works with the experience of reading a book and how the photos are presented.

ADM: Going back to the zine being a focused anthology, what would you say your key influences were for it - photographic, or otherwise?

CSN: Presentation-wise, I took a lot of cues from Japanese photography from the 60's and 70's. A Hunter by Daido Moriyama and the Asahi Camera publications come to mind. Both often featured full bleeds on their two page spreads as well as their multi-photo spreads. Another influence was Rap/Hip-Hop which I have only recently started exploring. I've always enjoyed wordplay and turns of phrase. I especially like when someone pivots, talking about a whole new topic based on a double meaning of a single word from the previous line. I wanted the progression of photographs in the book to feel like a series of pivots or turns in phrase maybe even audio samples taken from diverse sources but meshed into the narrative I was trying to create.

ADM: In terms of takeaway, what did you notice about your work, and by extension, about how you and your vision changed over the three year period?

CSN: The biggest takeaway I had was realizing how much of my work had been guided by my subconscious, the same subconscious that attached to the concept of Small Abyss Vs No Man Is An Island. I feel like this idea has always been in the back of my head and after these 3ish years of it quietly guiding my intuition as I made photographs, it finally bubbled to the surface and I had enough work to express it in a satisfactory way. But now that the cat's out of the bag, it's something I feel like I'll always be conscious of and because of that I'm not sure if I'll keep making work like this going forward. This project feels like a bookend, at least for the last few months it has. I haven't been shooting nearly as much once I started making the book and I think it's because I want to tackle a different problem with a different artistic language or medium. I'd say the biggest realization is that I was always working towards something like this and now, at least until I'm no longer burned out on this work, it's time for something new.

ADM: Now that you've wrapped up Small Abyss, what can we look forward to in the future?

CSN: I honestly couldn't say. I'm still taking pictures, just not as frenzied as before. Definitely more photography, probably less exclusive b&w 35mm film work. The project has definitely made me want to do more physical projects. Now that I have the large overarching project done, I've given myself permission, I guess, to do smaller, more niche projects possibly with a more mixed media approach.

ADM: Would you say after this project your working process has changed? if so how, if not why not?

CSN: I'd say it has definitely slowed down. I've been putting a lot of energy into finishing the book and have been shooting less. I hope I'll eventually get back into a groove where I'm shooting at least a roll a week. I think I'll have to start making smaller projects with goals in mind or define more explicit long term projects instead of idly shooting.

ADM: What advice would you give for someone looking to put together a retrospective of their work, especially one covering as much material as yours does?

CSN: Have a concept or theme that you can dig into and also have enough work to fulfill it. Make sure to overview all your work, there might be stuff you forgot about that will work really well. Keep asking yourself questions and don't get married to any one idea.

ADM: Do you have any parting words? Also where can we pick up copies of Small Abyss and see more of your work - I know you do print on demand - both darkroom and inkjet.

CSN: Just stay safe and sane and healthy. Small Abyss will be available on my website www.chrisnicpics.com or through DM via ig at @chrisnicpics. You can also see my work on my website and ig. I do, I'm still figuring it out more consistent print sales but if you follow me on either platform, I'll let you all know on there. Thanks again for doing this interview with me and promoting the project, Andrew. Really appreciate all the stuff you do for the community!

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SURE: Daniel Wang

March 14, 2020 in interview

SURE: Daniel Wang

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar, could you introduce yourself and your work, photographic or otherwise?

Daniel Wang (DW): Hi. My name is Daniel Wang and I am based out of Toronto, Ontario. I developed a fond interest in photography 3 years ago when I was introduced to skateboarding by the wonderful community I was surrounded by. How I thought about and viewed architecture and other physical aspects of a city were completely changed when I dove deeper into the the craft and mindset. My enthusiasm in street photography and photography as an art form was sparked through the exploration of my environments evoked by skateboarding and when my roommate introduced me to film photography and the history of art. Since then, I have worked professionally in event photography and started attending Ryerson University to further my understanding of the medium as a tool for creative expression. Currently available works include, my first photo zine "sure" and a selection of film photographs in my visual diary on instagram @danxuwang.

ADM: "Sure" looks like it's a zine about a trip or travel - was there a specific trip it was from? - what's the story behind it, and where does the title come from?

DW: "sure" is a photo zine of a 40 hour trip I took to New York City on the last weekend of my reading week for school. I used a roll of Fuji Pro 400H and Kodak Portra 400, with my Canon Sureshot 70 zoom, developed and scanned at the local camera store. Many notable photographers of New York have inspired the run and gun and silent observer styles of photography present in the zine. On the creation of the title, who really knows. I could have been really stoned with my roommate and saw the "sure" in canon sureshot and called it a day, or it could mean something more. Something to do with the definition of "sure" as a definite affirmation and how the word is ironically perceived today as a "duh" or "whatever". Nevertheless, nothing is more ensuring then documenting a captured image and as a mantra, I can't help but say sure to an exhausting and mind stimulating 40 hour trip in New York.

ADM: You use a lot of color blocking and color on your background (which I find really neat) - is there a significance to those color blocks, or is it an alternative to white to augment the images?

DW: I feel like there is a significance to the colour blocking. The editor and I really thought about the physicality and rhythm of the book and completed it overnight, we were very inspired. How the book felt to read through was most important. The tapered colour pages and coloured spreads provoke and primes the reader from every angle before even opening the book. The colours in the backgrounds are equally as important as the photos presented on the spread. We really tried colours until our intuition told us to stop. Inspiration came from colour palettes we'd see in the photos and our everyday life, from the t-shirts hanging in chinatown to our random assortments of gathered knickknacks. How did you find the coloured spreads and taper pages, Andrew? Do you have a favourite page and why?

ADM: I quite liked them! I found that as a photograph Page 10 (or the 10th Spread — Pictured here directly above) is my favorite -- but that's very much a personal appeal - I really like centerfold images on a spread, especially used in a landscape/survey style -- as far as overall spreads 15 and 19 were my favorite layouts or sets of multiple images together, both for the image choice and the intersection of the images. Tying into the above - the zine seems to be chronologically ordered - what was the sequencing and selection process like for "sure?"

DW: I am glad the zine seems to be chronologically ordered, but it was definitely not! Again, we really just relied on intuition and instinct and wanted to experiment with something different then what we were accustomed too. Each spread was made with specific themes in mind, whether we wanted to completely highlight an image or add colour and shapes to the viewing space to augment the image. Putting it together was just seeing what felt right where. I would say these weren't my best photos of New York but they made the most sense for me to put together for this zine. The catalyst for the zine derives from thinking about how important the presentation or delivery of something can be, compared to the thing itself. Along with all the physical aspects of print and book making, creating this zine has opened a new channel for me to express my ideas.

ADM: You mention working with an editor rather than strictly self-editing the zine - I think this is a great idea - who was the editor and what was the process like working with an editor outside yourself?

DW: As much as I love the idea of independently produced products I believe my collaboration with my editor, roommate and good friend Kolwyn McKinstry was an important element to developing and fine tuning my creative ideas. The hardest part is finding the right people you can confide in and share a creative vision with. Once I started talking more personally about expression, photography zines and colour, the discourse between Kolwyn and I became very valuable towards how our work process developed. Having another person to share my ideas with, helped me formulate and create this with much more confidence. He kept me stoked !!

ADM: I really like the thematic togetherness of the book - was there a specific moment or impetus where it clicked to step away from the confines of strictly ordering things chronologically as many zines are want to do?

DW: Again, I appreciate that dearly. TBH, I had originally planned for the zine to be chronological but with our emphasis on how the book feels to read, we preferred the rhythm of the order we had chosen. It is hard to say if there was a specific moment or impetus, but it is a smoother read this way.

ADM: It's really cool to hear that this has opened up a new venue to express yourself - are you planning more zines?

DW: I am planning more zines! Going through this process has made me realize how much I love doing it, it is an interesting medium and I plan to experiment more with my editor and any willing collaborators for future zines.

ADM: Where can we pick up copies of Sure? and see more of your work?

DW: Sure can be picked up on my website www.danxuwang.com or by DMing me on instagram @danxuwang. I plan on releasing prints and more zines. It is currently a 1 man operation, but I will do my best to ship it in a timely manner !!

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Hiroshima Legacy Project: David Chao

March 07, 2020 in interview

Hiroshima Legacy Project: David Chao

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those unfamiliar with you, can you introduce yourself, and talk a little bit about your photowork and practice outside Hiroshima Road Trip and Instagram?

David Chao (DC): A little bit about me, I am David Chao and I am a half Japanese and half Chinese American born and raised between San Francisco and Kobe, Japan.

I studied Product Design in college, and photography became a big passion of mine on the side. I started off learning in the school darkroom in an intro photography class, and then spent 2 years serving as a lab assistant and teaching other students. Teaching others skills or knowledge I have is something I enjoy quite fondly, and today I still serve as an adjunct lecturer at Stanford in Design Research, essentially a class focused on how to do ethnographic design research.

I used to shoot digitally on the side quite a bit, but my love for photography emerged in 2016 when I took my first film photography class. Something about the physical tangibility of using chemicals and making prints with my hands turned me into a lover of film. I currently shoot 35mm, medium, and large format. For me each film type serves a different purpose, and I don’t particularly like one over the other. I feel I am still exploring all the different ways film and cameras can be used to capture what I love.

My projects, or more serious projects, have all revolved around shooting in Japan. For me the biggest aspect is being both an insider and outsider gives me a unique perspective. I spent years growing up culturally between Japan and the US, and so I know enough about the inner thinking and culture to recognize certain behaviors. But at the same time, I am very much American, and that gives me foresight into being able to view scenes or actions taken from an outsider’s perspective. This to me has made photography projects in Japan as one’s that feel like the most genuine.

I tend not to post my most important or favorite work on Instagram. The reason being is Instagram was always just a way for me to find like minded people who enjoyed photography, not as a medium to share it. Over time I have loved the community of people I have met.

ADM: What was the inspiration for the project?

DC: After graduating from Stanford University in 2018 with a degree in Engineering -Product Design, I set out to capture a project I titled the “Hiroshima Legacy Project”. Using a 4x5 View Camera the goal of this project was to document the people of smaller towns all around Hiroshima Prefecture. Given the urban migration and the aging population, lots of small towns and even small cities in Hiroshima prefecture are starting to slowly die out.

The inspiration for this project began in the summer of 2017, a day after my sister’s 12th birthday party, my grandmother Toshiko passed away in her home. Toshiko was born to Soichi and Kumayo Morimoto of Hiroshima on September 10, 1930 in Watsonville, California, where she grew up with her six siblings until World War II. In 1942, President Roosevelt issued Executive Order 9066, and the government imprisoned the Morimoto family, including teenaged Toshiko and her siblings, in concentration camps – first in Poston, Arizona, then in Tule Lake, California. After the war, the US government repatriated the Morimoto family to Hiroshima. In her memory, I wanted to create a photographic essay capturing stories and faces of Hiroshima.

Along the way she picked up a hobby of photography and always had a camera with her. One of the reasons I decided to take a film photography class at Stanford was to be able to share some common experiences with her and her passion for art in general. The summer before my senior year of college my grandmother had passed away after fighting illness for many years. Before she had passed, she rounded up lots of old film and gathered all the older film cameras she had collected. While many of them do not work, one of my favorite cameras of all time was a Yashica T4 Super Zoom.

While in the midst of going over my future, finishing up my degree in Engineering - Product Design, and applying for jobs, I began to formulate a year long project following my graduation from Stanford. The first stage of that project was creating a darkroom space/studio to promote the photographic arts. Whether it’s just with family and friends, or eventually something more open to the local SF community, I wanted to create a space in her memory. The second stage is this upcoming project to travel to the rural and countryside communities of Japan and capture them before they completely fade away.

ADM: I've noticed that all of the photos you post on instagram of the Road Trip are numbered of 360. What's the significance of 360?

DC: I shot 10 rolls of provia100f on the road trip casually, so these are really more works from me just having fun with photography.

The real work from the road trip was 4x5 portrait shots, which I have only posted infrequently and rarely actually on Instagram. I can send you that in person, as I think those would be more interesting to post.

ADM: Is the road trip part of or related to a bigger or different body of work you're working on?

DC: I think for me right now the biggest thing is I want to be able to document culture and people in a meaningful way. For me what I like to capture hopefully tells a story, and my goal is to make this a foundation for a bigger project in the future.

For myself the biggest lesson I learned is: I don’t know as much as I thought I did.

One, I want to continue to improve my technique as a photographer. I felt that there were moments where I was limited on how I could capture a scene based off inexperience.

Two, I want to learn how to connect with people better and be more assertive in the field. This is something that I have been getting experience with at work currently. I work at a design research firm and as part of projects we conduct 3 hour long ethnographic style in-home interviews. This is perfect training for being able to guide with the right level of authority, but also dig for information in order to create a great photograph. It’s a little unorthodox, but it is something I am excited to try and translate to other mediums in the future.

ADM: In the past you've posted historic or archival photos that your grandmother took -- I find them really fascinating. How did you get into that, and have you had any favorite images from those archives, and any that you find really interesting, historically?

DC: When my grandmother passed, one of the biggest projects was cleaning out her stuff. She was a massive hoarder, but we found all these beautiful prints she had just buried under boxes. She was an artist, so she did lots of painting and photography, so as a family initiative, we had all her stuff framed and archived properly.

My favorite is the 8x10 contact print of the Atomic Bomb Dome (原爆ド一ム) in the late 1950s by my grandmother Toshiko. This is a super old print from the 1950s so there is natural yellowing of the paper. My grandmother most likely took this photo in her mid 20s. Hiroshima was a very important place for my family as many relatives were lost to the bomb and following WWII internment in the US my grandmother’s family moved back to the rebuilding community in Hiroshima. I’ve been to the peace memorial on multiple occasions and my pictures of the dome definitely are nowhere near as good as this. I am 95% sure that a Large Format View Camera was used as the top of the dome is extremely sharp while the bottom loses some focus, which is usually attributed to Large Format Camera movements.

With the other prints I like from her collection, it's more about what the Japan she grew up with looked like. I love old and rustic prints because when you really think about them, the people in those scenes saw the world like we do today, in color and in HD. It’s just that the tools didn’t exist for us to be able to capture it like we can actually see it. So my attachment for me is just I love to close my eyes and just try and imagine what the world was like back then.

ADM: For those of us unfamiliar with Hiroshima, can you describe the area (culturally and topographically), and talk about what the documentation process was like?

DC: Hiroshima is a unique prefecture of Japan, and it is shaped by its unique relationship with both modern history and land.

There is historical significance of the main city of Hiroshima given the devastation of the Atomic Bomb during WWII. While often the scars of war haunt an area long after, Hiroshima instead stands as a beacon of world peace. The revitalization of the city was unprecedented, and the Hiroshima Peace Memorial stands as a pillar of hope. Unlike other Japanese cities, where there might be remnants of an older world, Hiroshima is truly a modern city given that it had to rebuild itself in a post WWII era.

There is also a significance given the wide variation of its topography. Hiroshima blends both its island like feel in the south, with fishing ports and local fishing, with its extreme monotonous terrains in the North. While many Japanese prefectures share a relationship between land and sea, what makes Hiroshima unique to me is the sheer contrast between the sea and the mountains. Thus, when exploring the area and to capture an accurate view of the prefecture, one as to open itself up to the idea of the broad reaching implications of such a wide topographic spread.

The documentation process was a mixture of thoughtful planning and spontaneous decisions. I would never plan more than 5-7 days out, as weather and new learnings would shape the next steps of the journey. As I started to map out my route, I initially was planning to also explore other prefectures to more depth, but ended up spending 80% of my time focused on Hiroshima. One of the really difficult balances I had to negotiate with myself was how much time could I spend just enjoy traveling to new places versus focuses on the project itself. I began to think of this trip more like I would a job. I have a couple of set outcomes that I wanted to see through, and was responsible to myself to complete, but there were also times to relax and enjoy a breather here and there.

Traveling with 30 boxes of 4x5 film is also not an easy task. The key to making it all work was to make sure to be organized and follow the same routine every night and morning. Before arriving to any lodging, the first thing I would so is make sure all my gear was organized. That means camera is put away, film tend is packed up, and anything I planned to leave in the car was covered up. I would carry three bags with me into the hotel, a duffle of clothes, my backpack carry my 4x5 View Camera, and a small bag carrying enough new film to change out. After check in, before even showering or washing up for dinner, I would change out any film I had shot and make sure all my gear was ready for the next day. While this routine and strictness might seem psychopathic, the reason why I maintained this so closely was because it led to minimal mistakes. And the minute the routine was finished, I could spend my evenings relaxing, reflecting, and recovering for the next day.

Loneliness is the greatest enemy when traveling alone. For those who haven’t traveled for great lengths of times by themselves, it is a feeling that you have to get used to. I had prior experience working on a research project alone for 10 weeks, which helped me cope with the extensive feelings of being isolated and without accompaniment. The cruelest person to yourself is yourself. There is moments of doubt that can creep into the sub-conscience. At the same time, traveling alone is a blessing. The freedom to be so engrossed in your own thoughts and be so disconnected from the world around you is hard to get. I tell people, the voice in your head can be both your friend and enemy, but it is all about how you frame it. I often can’t hear myself very loudly until I am alone for 2 weeks. Then the voice rings loud and clear, and allows for honest and open dialogue with oneself.

ADM: When you started the Hiroshima Legacy Project, did you find that your thesis or findings changed as you've gotten deeper into the project, did you have a thesis going in, or has the whole project been a strict document?

DC: The main premise for this process was to create a project that would help me not only connect back to my ancestral roots, but also create a meaningful project to explore and learn about cultural nuances. During this course of brainstorming I was torn by which direction I should move in, as I was fascinated by a couple different areas.

The first area I wanted to understand was the Akiya housing crisis that was taking place in the more rural regions of Japan. This was not only a point of interest based of research, I had made observations in many past trips to Japan that there seemed to be many abandoned homes not just in the country side, but also in the outer parts of cities. The second area I wanted to understand was what the daily life was like for people living the countryside of Japan. My conception of Japan had been limited to the confines of Osaka and Kobe. I heard stories of the countryside from my extended family, but I personally had never familiarized myself to it. I want to experience it on my own terms to gain empathy and understanding of what life was like in those regions. The third area was I wanted to just see Japan through new fresh eyes. Being so familiar with a place can numb you to the beauty that exists. I wanted to see Japan in a new light and framed this project as a way to do so.

Ultimately the outcomes of this project was flexible. I actually didn’t know if I wanted to capture photos of people or photos of the environment when I first started this project. It wasn’t until a fateful encounter of the very first day of the project that I had made up my mind about it. To give some context, I come from a background of human-centered design; essentially design framed through the lens of building empathy with others. One of the key concepts is this idea of doing proper need finding. Need finding focuses on design research and design planning. The premise is that by studying the world around us, we can get a better understanding of what people need, and use those insights to create meaningful ways to think about a concept differently. Need finding draws upon theory and methods from anthropology, psychology, engineering and design planning. Yet my intial concept of this project didn’t have speaking and talking with people be the central focus of the project. My failure in all of this was I was too cocky and thought that I had enough information to conduct a successful project without the bounds of getting to know others.

On the first day of the project I drove off into a ditch on a mountain road. This was totally 100% my fault for being naive about driving in Japan. One, the steering wheel was on the other side of the car. The second, mountain roads in Japan are narrow and tricky. I was distraught, in disbelief, and thought the project was going to end on the very first day. Luckily, right behind me was a mother who was on her way home from grocery shopping. She helped me call a tow truck and waited with me for over an hour until it arrived. We spoke about what life was like in Shiso and Hyogo Prefecture. It was during this conversation that I realized I was arrogant to think I could capture a place without understanding the people that lived there. Sure, I could take photos of trees and rivers that would print beautifully, but there would be no substance. Later that day, the very first photo of this project turned out to be a shot of a man working on his field in a tractor. He had on a SF giants baseball cap, and it turned out his daughter had moved to SF. He was so excited that he called her up and we spoke over the phone. I am not religious, but if there was a sign from God this was it. From then, I decided this project was going to be about people.

ADM: I know the goal of the Project was to document the current citizens and places of the prefecture, but did you end up documenting some of the effects of the population decline? if so, or if you want to speak on it, what did you find?

DC: The biggest learning I had throughout this project was the joy that people in these areas continue to have. I see the city culture of Japan to be depressing in many ways. The youth drink themselves in their sorrow and misery in the harsh working culture. In contrast, the countryside may be “dying off”, but the relationships people share with each other continue to be beacons of light in the area. I am not naive to ignore the fact that the population of the countryside and the towns are slowly fading away. In terms of population decline, I also shot many sheets of BW 4x5 film. These shots captured more of the sorrow and decline of the region. Many of these photos consist of abandoned homes, abandoned hotels, or even abandoned shops. The sad truth is that these areas are slowly disappearing, and the signs were prevalent wherever I went. I think part of my desire to continue to work on this project was to capture what would be lost before it is too late.

The effects of the decline I noticed that had me the most saddened was the effects it had on communities that once thrived. While of course the abandoned buildings and deserted homes were shocking to witness in person, it was more how empty many central community centers for towns felt. At the same time, I think adversity creates new bonds for people. For example, I spent many days stopping by old elementary schools that had transformed itself into community centers for the elderly. There people from the town would get together to exercise and enjoy each other’s social company. It was a reminder of the power of people and relationships, and will be a lesson I will continue to cherish.

ADM: Will the bigger project - the one you're about to embark on take the form of a book, or an exhibition? Also will the second stage be throughout all of Japan, or continue to focus on Hiroshima Prefecture?

DC: For me right now, I still am trying to figure out what I want to do with all of this work. I feel it is incomplete, and that is probably more to do with me being a perfectionist. I shot these incredible portraits with a 4x5 camera and color film, but I can always see room for improvement. I am still in the process of putting the work together into a more lasting medium. Right now my mind goes to hopefully creating a mini book to share out with people who are interested in it.

In terms of next steps for the project itself, part of my decision to work at a research design firm was to continue to improve my ability to connect with people. I realized that being able to build bridges during a conversation ultimately shaped the outcome of a photo. Where I work now we conduct 3 - 4 hour ethnographic style in home interviews. This is almost like the perfect training ground in order to hone this skill set.

I love photography and continue to practice with the mission of improvement. I hope to gain the confidence to potentially pursue an MFA, but I don’t currently know what is in store for me. I want to continue to document Japan in a unique lens, and I am always thinking about different project ideas to do so.

ADM: What advice would you give to another photographer considering taking on a longer term project? especially one as loaded with history as yours - both personally and globally relevant?

DC: The biggest advice I would give someone is surround yourself with people that care about you and what you are doing. I think it is really easy to get caught in a situation of half a step in, when these projects truly require you to be all in. I wouldn’t be able to make those leaps without having a support system around me of people I know who would have my back.

Beyond just having a good support network, know yourself and what you want to accomplish. What does a successful project look like for me? What do I want to get out of this? What does this all mean? I think these are all questions you have to ask yourself before even getting started and continue to check as you work on a project. If you aren’t taking these steps, then you might get off track of what you truly want to accomplish. Especially if the project is something personal to you, it can feel like a lot of weight to bare. At the end of the day, you can only do what you set your mind to.

Leaving this with one last thought, photography should never feel like it's burdening you when you are working on a personal long term project. Because the minute it is framed as a nuance, then the love of the craft is gone. The entire love of the project can dissipate without it being finished. I don’t have an answer of how to always keep a positive frame, but finding something to help ground yourself is the best piece of advice I have received, so relaying it here.

ADM: Where can we find your work? Do you have any printed projects or exhibitions coming up? Do you have any parting words? Thank you again for doing this interview!

DC: Most of my work is on Instagram and I am slowly putting together my website. I haven’t had the time to put the effort I would like to revamp it, but it is coming I promise.

In terms of printed projects or exhibition right now I am working on getting all these photos together and organized. I think the first priority would be to compile it into either a Zine or a book, so those are the next steps I am currently taking.

For parting words, thanks for doing the interview and it was a great way to collect thoughts in a structure that I hadn’t had before!