Go to the Land and I Will Show You: Alana Perino

July 25, 2022 in interview, Book Talks

Go to the Land and I Will Show You : Alana Perino

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren’t familiar with you, or your work, could you introduce yourself?

Alana Perino (AP): I'm a photographer but also broadly a lense based artist. My practice and my work is occupied with the reconciliation (or lack thereof) of self, home, and belonging.
ADM: I've never been super clear on what a lens based artist is, I'm familiar with photographers, filmmakers, videographers, etc - but "lense based artist" is a label or classification that I've never quite wrapped my brain around, mostly due to lack of explanation. Could you fill me in on what defines a lens based artist, and possibly relate it back to your own work and practice?

AP: I’m glad you asked this question because I have been grappling with how to define myself as an artist lately. I fall back on the classification of “lens based” as a means to say that I work with cameras. Film cameras, digital cameras, videocameras etc. But the truth is that I’ve also been engaging with collage, casting, and installation for some time now. I don’t feel as proficient in these other fields, but one day I’m hoping to consider myself as an artist who is not media specific. Till that time comes, I use lens based to define the kinds of tools I engage with, tools with lenses.
ADM: We’re talking about your upcoming photobook project “Go to the Land and I Will Show You” - how did you start your project? And where did the title come from?

AP: I began the project on a road trip from New York to California. I had wanted to stop to see Gettysburg on the leg from Philadelphia to DC but no one else in the car was interested. We passed many heritage sites in that same fashion and I suppose I became a bit obsessed with them. After that trip I made 11 road trips over the span of 8 years to specifically see "American" heritage sites. I was interested in the struggle of trying to experience invisible histories and the ways that landscape creates collective memory. More specifically I was interested in photographing the illusions of how history imprints itself or is imprinted upon landscape. The title comes from the Bible. In Genesis, God commands Abraham to leave his home and go to a land that will be shown to him. Obviously there are many translations of this Hebrew text, but I chose this version. It felt particularly relevant to the United States mythologies that justify settler colonialism, indigenous genocide, manifest destiny, and the mechanisms that engage with tourism in the US.

ADM: 11 road trips over eight years is a major endeavor - I'm sure you've seen almost every major site (official and unofficial) at this point - however, did you find yourself gravitating more towards a specific set of sites, and were there any sites that you came away from either with a new understanding of American history, or that you found yourself making especially significant (to yourself, or otherwise) images at?

AP: There are so many historic sites, I’d argue that the functioning of American culture is very much embedded in the designation and curation of these sites. It’s impossible to see them all, but yes I’ve many of the “major” ones. Truly it was an obsession which began on my first road trip in 2013. I was with some friends who were less inclined to stop at these sorts of places. They were more interested in seeing friends and family. Gettysburg was on our trajectory but we didn’t stop there. My father isn’t a Civil War fanatic but he is emotionally invested in 1993 film about the battle. We used to watch it together when I was young. He knows every line. I had always wanted to go there, to situate my body where I had seen the bodies on screen, where the historic bodies descended on the hills or fell in the fields. When I finally went to Gettysburg, it was a culmination of that desire that was quite anti-climactic.
ADM: The project has undergone several really fascinating evolutions over the time we’ve been in class together - what’s influenced the changes in the book?

AP: A lot of the work I made over the years were nods to various photographers who engaged with the US landscape: Ansel Adams, Lee Frielander, Joel Sternfeld, Mitch Epstien. The editing process has mostly been a matter of distilling the work into a very specific vision, one that attempted to avoid the influences of other artists and relied on a personal conception of what these places look like. After a while it became clear to me that I wasn't even trying to tell a narrative as much as create an optical experience that triggered notions of place, memory, and history. The decision to not name the sites in the book felt crucial in this way, because it wasn't important to divulge where the pictures were made. It was only important to make the reader want to know, to question, and to want to see more.
ADM: When making photographs for the book, was there a particular thought process, or a specific intuition you followed?
AP: I suppose I photographed whenever I felt like I couldn't really see. The frustration would drive me to try to visualize in a different way, around a corner, through a viewfinder, from a different perspective. In this way, many of the photographs included in the book are instances of my seeing unsuccessfully, and the images where I achieved a certain amount of visual or narrative satisfaction were left on the cutting room floor. Seeing became a metaphor for knowing, for experiencing, and I wanted to create a world full of the unknowable and the unseen.

ADM: That's really fascinating - it's sort of like digging into the subconscious of American history - the "silent" history if you will? - are there particular aesthetic notes or semiotics you find yourself using or returning to (if you're not actively considering them at the time of shooting) for that take on history, and "seeing the unseen?"

AP:I think a lot about orientation, disorientation, and the ways in which our bodies and senses are engaged when we encounter these sites. I focus on sight as the locus of that kind of experience. There is a colonial emphasis on “discovery” at most of these locations, which suggests the possibility of a direct observation of the past. The suggestion being that if you stand in such a way on a certain mound of dirt, engaging your imagination and the “knowledge” of history that’s been offered, that you can have an experience in time and space that moves you to forget when and where you are presently. I suppose a lot of my photographs are trying to visually engage with this kind of exercise, and what I settled on more than anything is the impossibility of that experience.

ADM: What projects are you taking on next? What's fascinating to you outside your book?

AP: Most recently I’ve been engaging with personal histories and my relationship to family and home. I’m specifically interested in how inherited trauma is stored in objects, space, and ultimately the body. The first chapter of the work which I call “Pictures of Birds” focuses on my father’s side of the family in Longboat Key, Florida. The second chapter, tentatively titled “Adult Children,” is an exploration of my relationship with my mother. For these bodies of work, I am expanding my practice to include installation, sound, sculpture, and collage but the work is still essentially photographic in nature. It’s all very experimental at this point which means I’m not sure what shape it will take in its final form, but I’m finding that unknowability very exciting and generative.

ADM: Over the course of your investigations into the American Landscape via placing yourself in historical sites, what did you learn?- beyond what's pictured in the book, either about yourself or about the photographic process - that you'd be keen to pass on to others.

AP: Rest became something that I had to actively entrench into my practice, not just as a respite for carrying a camera or walking in the hot sun, but as a mode of engaging my body and mind in ways that exercised other muscles. This was not something I practiced in the first few years of this project but by the end it was essential not just to the work but to my well-being as an artist and a person.

ADM: From Eric Kaczmarczyk: What does a day in the life as a photographer, as an artist, as a person, look like for you? What time do you wake up, go to sleep? Outside of photography, what are some of your favorite hobbies?

AP: I work best at night. I've always wanted to be a morning person but I've come to accept that my "morning hours" will always be closer to 1am, 2am, 3am, 4am, than 5, 6, 7 or even 8am, which is when I'm usually asleep. Late mornings and early afternoons are for meetings, paid-work, shoots, grant applications, sometimes rest or play. Evenings and nighttime are for my practice, and hopefully in the midst of all that I remember to eat dinner.

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? - you can answer your own question if you'd like.

AP: I'm always curious as to how other photographers know when a project is finished. For me, I can feel it in my body as a resistance to photographing. I become tired more easily, less motivated. It's very much a physical sensation as opposed to a mental or intellectual fatigue. This is how I know it's time to try something new.

Gallery to the above left contains images of the current maquette of “Go to The Land And I will Show You”

ADM: Do you have any parting words/shoutouts/recommendations?

AP: We don't have a solid ETA yet but I will be publishing Go to the Land and I Will Show You with Drew Leventhal under his incipient publishing house, Valley Books. So keep a lookout for updates on this and other titles he'll be publishing in the very near future.

ADM: Awesome! Looking forward to buying my copy when it’s out in the wild!

Lost Angels: Andrei Amodia

June 19, 2021 in interview

Lost Angels: Andrei Amodia

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar with you, or your work - could you introduce yourself?

Andrei Amodia (AA): My name is Andrei Amodia, I was born in the Philippines, and my family moved to LA in 1994; Since then, I go back and forth from LA and the Philippines. I was first introduced to photography in 2004, when a coworker of mine at Kip’s Toyland brought his camera with him to work, and my love for photography was ignited [by that interaction].

ADM: We're talking about Lost Angels - which is a book/zine of street photographs set in Los Angeles - is there a particular focus to the book (in your own words), and did you come up with the title or concept, before the photographs?

AA: The focus for this book is very simple - I just want to show my families and friends in the Philippines what America looks like from my point of view. At first I [shot] black and white but I thought color would show more detail and information for my family and friends to see - so I switched to color around 2014. I shot bnw from 2006-2010, though I did not do any photography 2011 - to early 2014. I came up with the title after the photographs - I am sure other people have used "Lost Angels" but I can’t think of any better title. The reason why I titled it Lost Angels is because I imagine people living in the city of angels (Los Angeles) are angels but none of us are doing any angelic stuff; so we are all “lost angels.”

ADM: What is the inspiration for the project, or this particular body of work?

AA: I can't really say I have an inspiration for this project because I was not really doing a project. Over the years as I have collected more photos I started to see something that could be put together into a book; but what really pushed me to make one is that I am in a situation that I don’t want to photograph anymore, unless I make a book/zine. In order for me to move forward and photograph the book/zine has to be done.

ADM: So looking forward, what do you think your next project will be, or will be about, now that you're committing to making books/zines as the core of your practice?

AA: There is a part 2 to My Lost Angels project - maybe 3 even, but I am planning to make a Photobook/zine for my Philippines photographs that I made late 2008- late 2010 before proceeding to the 2nd part of my Lost Angels photobook/zine project. There are other projects I want to put out such as the Black Queen project (portraits of black women) which is almost ready. [Another project in progress is] the torn faces project - these are posters of politicians that they posted during the election but did not take them down after, so the posters have deteriorated and made the faces look deformed - somehow this represents how corrupt they are in our country. These are just some [projects] that I have in my plans.

ADM: Oh fascinating - what makes the (potential) part 2 + 3 different from part one, or what did you get out of part one that you're using/approaching your subsequent projects with?

AA: It is not going to be totally different. It is most likely going to be a continuation of the first one - In part 1 it has 5 chapters and I had people write on a yellow paper what they can say about LA and added that to the book as a beginning to each chapter and, next to it photos of police doing their thing - Maybe I am going to do more of this in part 2 -- having people write. In each chapter I sequenced the photographs in a way so it will tell a short story, at least to me. So I think sequencing photographs to tell a short story in each chapter is what I learned or got from part 1. After reviewing some of the photographs that I didn’t use in part 1, that can stand on their own, I realized that they can be put together and make more short stories and put into a book/zine -- Short stories probably only I can understand. But it gives me guidance on how to arrange the photos.

ADM: What was your image selection process like for Lost Angels? And how did you sequence your book?

AA: I am not a very technical photographer - same goes when I am selecting images. I just select the ones that really stand out at the time of selection until I get to 60 images - then I group the ones that are kind of similar and sequence them in a way to make a really short story. This way, the sequencing of the images looks organized.

ADM: When you're out shooting (for this book, or otherwise) is there anything you think about, or focus on? A process?

AA: When I go out I don’t really think about making photographs - I have my camera with me all the time - even during those years I didn't really take any photographs (2010-2014.) I just go out and let the world happen and if I react to something that is the only time I think about really photographing until I am done with it. It could be street portraits, cityscapes, or landscapes, - even cars.

There are times I need motivation or a little push; that is when I tell myself I am focusing on portraits or landscape etc etc just to get me going. And I will tackle whatever I am planning to do that day, but I never say today I will do street photography for some reason - I guess that is my focus and process at the same time.

ADM: What specifically is it about the book form that you find suits your work?

AA: I did not really put a lot of thought [into] the book form - I just wanted something that is larger than a 5x7, and affordable to me and to whoever is interested.

ADM: If there were one image, or maybe even five images that were absolutely essential to understanding the book, or in this case that you'd show your family and friends in the Philippines to explain, which one would it be, and why?

AA: In the Philippines we think of America as this Glitz and Glamour world and it is as we see it through Hollywood movies. So I moved close to DTLA to capture the opposite of that and that is what I want to show them. If I were to pick an image or two, it would be the first image of the book, where two men giving the finger to the police and the police are waving back at them and the image on page 41 - a photographer taking a picture of a model while they are both on the ground and to the side there is a man digging in the trash and in the background there is a movie set a group of police cars on a car carrier.

AA: this image here [below] would probably explain a lot about Cebu, Philippines. We are a very Catholic country, and I believe the only country that doesn’t have a divorce law besides the Vatican City, because of our religion.

ADM: In terms of influence, are there any photographers or other artists who have influenced or shaped your work, either in your process or the photos you like to make?

AA: Yes, Henri Cartier Bresson has had a huge impact in how I work and so has Garry Winogrand. Richard Avedon and Diane Arbus also are a big part of my growth as a photographer. The most recent is Martin Parr -- Their photographs don’t really influence me (maybe a little) but their words, and how they work, influence me the most.

ADM: Do you have any specific favorite or influential Photobooks? Or have you mostly been working from your own template?

AA: There is a HCB book, and Garry Winogrand book (I do not remember the titles -- I have them in the Philippines and have not checked them since 2010.) I think these are very influential to how I photograph, and how I selected photos for the book - but the way I arranged the book I copied what Robert Frank said when he was doing the Americans.

ADM: What advice would you give to someone just starting out in street photography, or looking to document their surroundings? Is there any stand out piece of advice you've gotten or have found in your practice?

AA: I have not gotten any advice from anyone - photography has always been a solo thing for me. I mostly learned what I know from what I read about other well known photographers of the past. All I can say is if you want to do street photography, or any type of photography, is to just do it. Immerse [yourself] in all of the information [you] can gather and apply it. Eventually [you’ll] find [your] own way of photographing. But you got to have passion and obsession to actually grow as a photographer - without it you will not go anywhere.

ADM: From Al Palmer (of Brown Owl Press): What was the biggest single turning point for you as an artist?

AA: When I decided to leave black and white and just do color - it took some time for the transition to happen. That was the biggest turning point for me. I believe my thinking process changed when I switched to color - it is more open to more possibilities. Although I do just color now, color is not a deciding factor for me to take a photograph.

ADM: Where can we pick up copies of Lost Angels? and do you have any other parting words/shoutouts?

AA: Lost Angels is a self-published book of mine - I am not looking for anything big to come out from it. Right now direct messaging me in my instagram (@andreiamodia) or facebook is the only way to get a copy.

The Edge Of Industry: Al Palmer

December 29, 2020 in interview

The Edge Of Industry: Al Palmer

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who may not be familiar with you or your work, would you mind introducing yourself and your work?

Al Palmer (AP): I'm a photographer and book designer/publisher based in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, in the United Kingdom. I've been taking photographs for 14 years now and have exhibited my work worldwide. The past few years have seen a shift from focusing on exhibitions to releasing my work in zine and book form. The majority of my work deals with world building, creating fictitious imaginary places from photographs of very real places. On the surface it may look like documentary work, it's very much not. Recently I've been creating work that deals with the fidelity of information: how much detail can an image lose before it can't communicate the intended message across.

ADM: We're talking about "The Edge Of Industry" - would you mind explaining the concept behind the series for the audience?

AP: The Edge of Industry is a cycle of photographs taken at the site of a derelict magnesium works near Hartlepool in the North of England where heavy industry has died off over the past thirty years. These images indirectly reference the death of shipbuilding and metal works, the lack of government action to prevent the North and South of England dividing both economically and socially, creating a generation of workers with no future; directly they show the land has yet to be redeveloped; it remains in a perpetual state of ruin. With an increasing amount of closures among factories in England these photographs are both a record of the end of a specific industrial area and also a quiet farewell to the past of the North of England.

ADM: What was the inspiration for the series? How did you settle on the concept and what is your personal relationship to it?

AP: I'm not a documentary photographer but this is the closest I've ever been to producing 'straight' documentary work. As with all of my work, it's more about me than the place I'm photographing. The magnesium works is visually attractive because it's so weird looking, people from differing backgrounds see sci-fi movies, dystopian novels... I saw the recently history of my area and my people. I'm from here and it was the future of my people that was impacted by the government of the Thatcher years.

ADM: Digging in a little more to your nod to worldbuilding vs. documentarianism - would you say that you've built an imagined or extrapolated narrative on top of the magnesium works for Edge of Industry?

AP: There's less world building in The Edge of Industry then, say, my work in “I Believe (In None of This)” but I am of the generation whose parents lost their jobs in heavy industry so there's a degree of distance. The ruins in the photographs are clearly a metaphor for the problems in society caused by these places of work shutting.

ADM: Taking it a step further, will you work on a project on what you believe the future (bleak or not) to be? Thinking future-forward in photography is always an odd topic.

AP: By nature each photography can only be a document of the past. I tend not to think about the future too heavily, certainly not to the point of making work regarding it. You could say my work is about the present, using snapshots of the past. Giving this some thought I cannot figure HOW I would make work about the future. That'd probably involve actual world building, making my own utopian model city and photographing it. Which does actually sound quite appealing...

ADM: You also run Brown Owl Press - what was the impetus behind starting your own zine printing company, and how would you say the self publishing process has affected your photographic and artistic process?

AP: I'm certainly more ruthless with regards to the photographic edit! I'm very conscious of how a series flows now, rather than just picturing the photographs on a gallery wall. I think this has probably meant that I focus less on taking interesting individual photographs and more on serving the narrative.I started Brown Owl Press mostly just because it felt like I should. Why wait for someone else to do it when I can? I like being able to publish photographic stories by photographers that deserve a bigger audience but possibly haven't received one yet.

ADM: Zooming the scope out a little bit - would you say that your work, Edge of Industry included, tends to center on implied or "broken" narratives? why or why not, and could you give an example of how you think about or process that narrative?

AP: Without a doubt. I think that's the crux of what I find interesting about photography: it's not very good at showing a linear narrative, especially in comparison to film making and prose. I suspect that's why a lot of photographers like to imagine they are working in a similar way to a poet. It's a nice idea, it's romantic, but I feel comics are a close visual medium to photography - sequential media leaving out much of the detail. The Edge of Industry is the outlier in my work in that I'm not really trying to suggest much, more show it. Primarily I think of photography as something closer to collage than to painting. Roughly tearing off this bit, a tiny sliver of this.

ADM: In terms of understanding “Edge of Industry: as outsiders - both an audience and, in my case (along with a fair chunk of our readers) as an American, what would you say the most essential photos are to understanding the project are, and what context they provide for the rest of the series?

AP: I'm not sure any one photograph carries more weight than another in this series, there are only 16 photographs and they all combine to give a good sense of the location. There are two photos that show the horizon, one shows this flat, unspectacular landscape and then other shows the North Sea. I suppose they give the magnesium works some physical reference point. There are definitely parallels with, say, Detroit in this story. It'll be interesting to know how an American sees this work. It'd previously been shown in New York but I can't imagine anyone from NYC looking at this work in the same way someone from the mid-West would, for instance.

ADM: The photobook/zine has (seemingly, to me) really come into vogue over the last ten to twenty years, and there's starting to be quite a bit of discussion of the photobook as an art object - as a publisher and book designer - what do you think the key elements of the art book or photobook/zine are, and what makes them so compelling, rather than say a folio, or a hanging exhibition?

AP: There are definitely economic aspects to this - digital printing increasingly being both cheap and high quality, so a decent photo zine costs a lot less than it would've in the past. The flipside of that is gallery/exhibition space has never been as expensive. Everyone has a camera in their pocket and the rise of Instagram has definitely helped photographers never switch off, so this off-hand photography definitely seems at odds with a formal gallery space. Also, an exhibition is temporary and photographs are permanent. Prints are hard to sell multiples of (finite wall space for most customers) while zines and books are an easier item to sell - especially with so many sales avenues online. It's not just economics though, photography works best on a small scale in my mind. I can do it at my own pace, and I'm in control of every single thing. And I like having full creative control of my work.

ADM: How has your approach to narrative driven photography changed over the years - did you learn anything new while making Edge of Industry that you'll take forward with you to the next project?

AP: The biggest lesson learned from The Edge of Industry is to work more efficiently. It was shot in a single day, the entire series consists of of just 16 photos. Some projects require a huge sprawling inventory of images, some require very few. How you say it matters almost as much as what you say. The Edge of Industry is quite literal work, both the photographs and the title. I'm unlikely to work in such a straight forward manner again, at least in the foreseeable future.

ADM: What are your major influences, photographic or not, and can you tie them back to Edge of Industry, or have you diverged from outside influence or touchstones, as you've matured as a practitioner?

AP: My biggest influence visually is Gerhard Richter. Carving into the space between reproduction and expression is at the heart of everything I do. I also admire the fact that he doesn't work in the same manner consistently, my big fear artistically is to just repeat myself. Alec Soth and Joel Sternfeld were huge influences on me photographing, and I can definitely see the influence of Sternfeld's Walking the High Line on this, just photographing a relatively small area in an expansive way with a fairly uniform view. I tend not to take direct inspiration from single photographers now, my inspiration tends to be more abstract and on a larger scale: ideas, music, technology.

ADM: Dipping into that - can you speak on some of the Music, Tech, and Ideas that you've been thinking about and inspired by lately?

AP: I'm hugely influenced by the German music scene surrounding the Termina/Beat Bude/Ava/Tax Free labels. It's most producers and DJs from the house and techno scene (Glenn Astro, Max Graef, Am Kinem etc) moving beyond rigid genre and begin deconstructing various types of music. A lot of it's quite experimental but it's also very musical, which keeps me interested. Photographically, the work of Clara de Tezanos is influencing me a lot currently. Her work is so rich and alien to me, I'm really enjoying trying to 'solve' it. It hints at a lot of things and I'm really trying to suggest more than I'm trying to explain in my own work of late. The idea I'm focusing on of late is how much detail can be taken from a photograph before it no longer communicates efficiently. I'm wrapping up a two year project on this topic currently as well as the layout of a book on the subject.

ADM: What advice would you give to someone looking to create photographs, or sets of photographs that lean into both a narrative form (both implied or explicit), and one that seeks to do "worldbuilding?"

AP: Take photographs impulsively, edit with intent. Or, the opposite. I tend to think in terms of batches of photographs being a 'chapter' or a 'verse'. Pacing is really important to a photo essay and I think that's especially important when putting your voice to something. Lots of experimenting in the editing phase is where the narrative will flourish, figuring out which photographs are essential to the story, and also which are not.

ADM: From Andy Pham: Do you think there is any value in the “hierarchy” of the photo world, or art world in general, in terms of the division between “gallery artists”, big publishers, etc. and the rest of us trying to just make work that means something personally? In other words, do you think there are pros and cons to both, or do you think there is anything lacking on either side of this divide?

For better and for worse I'm quite a self-driven person so, I've never had any fear of the hierarchy of photoworld. I'm not daunted by people or institutions. I can see why some would be useful, and openly want to be involved with some of them but that's because of what they can do for me/what I can bring to them rather than any need to be accepted.

If a recognised gallery wanted to show my work I'd be very conscious of using that (probably finite) time to harvest connections, grow my audience and put that back towards my usual DIY practice as it would probably not be a long-term arrangement. That possibly sounds a little mercenary but the larger the institution, the less concern it'll have for you so get what you can out of the situation. And hopefully make some money.

There are no heroes.

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? (you can answer the question yourself, if you'd like.)

AP: What was the biggest single turning point for you as an artist? My answer possibly links to the previous question: when I realised that I could do things myself rather than wait of galleries and publishers doing it for me. That was when I really put faith in myself as an artist rather than just someone who takes good photos. Keeping that moment in mind is important.

ADM: Thanks so much for the interview - do you have any parting words, or advice? I know we can purchase your zines and books at Brown Owl Press - but is there anywhere else that we can see or purchase more of your work? -- Thanks again for the interview!

AP: My advice can be applied to almost anything: consistency is the most important thing for progress.

The Brown Owl Press website has a list of our stockists but we do 90% of our trade via the webstore. Anything I publish that isn't under the Brown Owl Press umbrella is available via my website, the first of a series of zines I plan on publishing came out a couple of months ago called Crawling the Walls and is still available.

Thank you for interviewing me! If anyone has any further questions or would like to reach out, feel free to send me an email.

Brackish River Valley: Eric Kaczmarczyk

December 20, 2020 in interview

Brackish River Valley: Eric Kaczmarczyk

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar with you and your work, would you mind introducing yourself?

Eric Kaczmarczyk (EK): Hi, my name is Eric Kaczmarczyk, I'm an artist-photographer living and working in the Lower Hudson Valley region of New York State. My artwork is primarily made within the environment in which I live; whether it be a landscape, a cityscape, a still life, an abstraction, or the occasional portrait. Photography for me is a way to connect with my surroundings and ultimately, a way to process my own psychology. As I continue to explore, film photography has been my medium of choice, in part due to its slowness - developing, scanning, editing, printing -gives me time to sleep on it all.

ADM: We're talking about Brackish River Valley - you open with the words that make the title being defined, and have a brief afterword - could you expound on the concept and impetus for the project?

EK: The photographs I've made over the past several years were without a specific intention or end goal in mind. Before coming up with the final name for the book, I had the word "river" stuck in my head... and I kept thinking, what about river, why river. As I learned more about the area, I came to understand that the Hudson River is brackish; a mixture of salt and freshwater. When the ocean tide rises, the river flows northward; when the ocean tide falls it flows southward - at least in the lower part of the river. In the afterword, I mention that the "mayor was covering everything in concrete" as a way to acknowledge that there were several large scale construction projects going on around this time, erecting residential towers and complexes. Not everything was being covered, in fact, there was some uncovering. There used to be a large parking lot in the center of town which they removed and re-exposed part of the Saw Mill River that was buried underneath years ago. There was still little-to-no grass in the nearby parks, most everything was concrete with a few trees and some flowers.

ADM: I find the photos in Brackish River Valley to be very formally pleasing - is there a particular meaning or throughline in the photos? What was your process for image-making - and following that - you handmade/bound the project - is there extra significance to that handmade approach?

EK: Symbolically - the mixture of salty and fresh water, flowing two different directions, the struggle between concrete and nature and the conflict of old and new - were all on my mind while making this work. Not only did this help me understand the environment that I stepped into, but also helped me understand my internal dialogue. I used to be a very rigid creator, thinking of a concept then illustrating that concept. For me, this left me stuck behind the emotional walls that I've unintentionally built. Through making this work specifically, while undergoing a life transition of my own, I felt the impact of covering things in concrete. I think making this book by hand is relatable back to why I shoot film - it was a slow, intimate process, giving me a lot of time to gain clarity.

ADM: Are there any images that you would point to explain the project to an outsider, or that encapsulate the project best (from your perspective), and why or why not?

EK: I’d say, look at the pair of images where on the left is a light fixture and on the right is a building without a roof. This is one of my favorite uses of metaphor in the book where the light appears to illuminate the roofless building as a symbol for searching and introspection. Additionally, note the presence of a large shadow cast on the hillside, obscuring the view. Also, take a look at both the black-and-white image of the busy road and the color image of the parking garage with water in the foreground. Both of these images depict two examples of where the Saw Mill River was uncovered and parks lacking nature were built.

ADM: Recently, I saw you mention on IG that "Brackish River Valley has two more sequels coming next year, what are they about, and how does the book fit into that larger cycle?

EK: Yes! I have two more books planned, with different titles yet to be determined. This first book contains photographs from 2017 and 2018, all made within Yonkers which borders New York City to the north. The next book will contain photographs from 2019, all made between Yonkers and Sleepy Hollow, New York. During this time, I've transitioned to a new location further up the river. And finally, the third book will be photographs from 2020, all made within Tarrytown and Sleepy Hollow. Generally, the further north you go from New York City, the greener the landscape becomes. This may sound obvious to some, but for me, as I break down my emotional barriers, nature has played a major role.

ADM: Do you have a greater overall goal for the cycle of photobooks? does it have a name?

EK: Ever since I relocated to the Lower Hudson Valley several years ago, I’ve been fascinated by the river and the rivertowns. Not pictured in this first book, another geographic feature that caught my attention is the Old Croton Aqueduct which is now a hiking trail spanning 26 miles, running parallel to the river. Previously, the aqueduct provided fresh upstate water to New York City. Aside from the river being a mode of transportation for water and boats, it felt like a place to meditate, transporting thoughts. My overall goal is to document this transportation of thoughts while connecting with the physical environment. There is no name for the overall project yet.

ADM: In terms of influence, what were the major influences on Brackish River Valley, and the cycle at large? they can be photographic, or non-photographic.

EK: Several artists that come to mind are Sophie Calle, Laurie Anderson, Pipilloti Rist and Sol LeWitt. Aside from artist inspiration, one major influence on Brackish River Valley has been weekly talk therapy with a psychologist. I’ve always been an intuitive artist but, through depression and anxiety, this has helped me connect with my photographs in a more direct and conscious way. Another major influence goes back about 10 years, a college professor of mine who encouraged me to go out and make photographs without thinking or planning beforehand. This helped me ward off overthinking and make more room for reflection.

ADM: You've mentioned therapy and mental health - lately I've found a lot of photographers (myself included) use the medium as an outlet for their personal struggles - in your own words, or opinion, what is it about the medium that makes it so intuitive to the topic of mental health or illness?

EK: For me, one thing about photography that makes it such an intuitive medium is within the ephemeral nature of pressing the shutter button. Personally, in regards to my mental health, my ability to process emotions in the moment can be quite difficult, it takes me a while. If I make work with this in mind, and relinquish some control, this leaves a lot of room for the subconscious to do its work. Letting my mind wander and letting my intuition tell me what to make a picture of. In this state of mind, I feel that it's easier to simultaneously experience the moment and also make the picture, processing the emotions later on.

ADM: What does the Photobook format mean to you, and do you find it to be substantially different from the zine?

EK: I always found photobooks to be a great way to hold art in your hands and feel what the artist might’ve been feeling. Truthfully, I wasn’t fully certain whether to call this project a photobook, a zine or a chapbook… to me, it’s a type of hybrid between a photobook and a zine. I did want an intimate smaller book, and in a several book series, like a zine. I don’t find the various formats to be substantially different; they are all books and serve the same purpose of communicating artistic expression.

ADM: What advice or insight would you give to someone looking to contextualize their mental health or findings in therapy through photography?

EK: My best advice would be to not restrict yourself into one style, one theme, one type of photography. Having gone to art school, often, I felt that you can be pushed into overly developing a style in order to fit into a niche within the industry. In regards to mental health, and art, this can be quite suppressive. If you’re only photographing one subject matter, in one way, it will not be possible to access the far reaching complexities of one’s psychology. My second piece of advice would be to never stop asking questions to yourself; reflect, analyze the symbols, analyze the colors. Unrelated to my book, in college, I made gross food combinations, placed them on the sidewalk, asked four people to stand around, then photograph the scene from the knees down. About 10 years later, I realized it was a sort of rebellion to the superficial environment I was raised in, where food and appearance were the most important thing, more important than feelings.

ADM: From Al Palmer: What was the biggest single turning point for you as an artist?

EK: At first thought, I began to scan my recent achievements, my technical upgrades, my emotional freedom… even with some of this feeling like they’re big steps, it still feels more like a long term progression. Therefore, I’d have to say, the biggest turning point for me is not recent; it was as a teenager, the purchase of my first camera. It was my first major coping tool. I was able to navigate my world, soothing anxieties, the usual “hiding behind the camera” perspective. I tried expressing myself through drawing and painting but, I felt more clarity while looking through a lens. Personally, this is the most important to me because I discovered that I could communicate in ways that I could not with words.

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? You can answer it yourself if you'd like.

EK: What does a day in the life as a photographer, as an artist, as a person, look like for you? What time do you wake up, go to sleep? Outside of photography, what are some of your favorite hobbies?

ADM: Where can people purchase a copy of Brackish River Valley? I saw that you'd sold through your initial batch (congratulations!) will you have another pressing for sale alongside the next books in the cycle? Do you have any other parting words? -- Thanks again for the interview!

EK: Fortunately and unfortunately, the book is sold out! The next books in the cycle will be a continuation of similar subject and format and a good chance to pick up a copy. At the end of the cycle, I am hoping to put the several books together into one larger, hardcover book… but we will see! In the future, I may consider a second edition, but will not be handmade like the first edition. Lastly, for those who liked the book, or who missed the book, I am releasing a batch of images from the book as special edition prints that will be going up for sale soon. My only other parting words are a big thank you to frozenwaste.land for offering to interview me and to all my friends and colleagues who’ve shown invaluable support throughout this process.

Weaknesses: Andy Pham

December 13, 2020 in interview

Weaknesses : Andy Pham

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who are not familiar, could you introduce yourself and your work?

Andy Pham (AP): I’m a photographer and writer. I’ve spent most of my life in the New Orleans area, but also lived in Europe (Czech Republic) for three years, which was a really formative experience for me and kind of changed my life in many ways. I’ve been back in America for the past few years, and have been making work that on one hand, is constantly changing, perhaps stylistically, but on the other, is more or less rooted in the same general themes, personal emotions and instincts.

ADM: We're talking about your series in progress, “Weaknesses” - which, per your description on your webpage is a "long-term, ongoing work in progress examines human weakness and fragility, particularly in the form of mental illness, and the various ways in which it can be represented through the perception of our surroundings." Could you share what the inspiration was for the project, and what the end goal for it would be?

AP: The project “Weaknesses” is the most personal work I’ve been making. It’s mainly a response to my own experience with mental illness, as well as that of some of the people close to me. It’s been a years-long endeavor, in part because as I learn more about my own mental and psychological conditions and attempt to piece together who I am, who I’ve been, who I want to be, etc. and to process my own journey through mental illnesses, I find that the photography I make changes subtly as well.

The end goal would likely be a print publication of some kind, but I don’t have a set timeline in mind. I think it depends on finding the right time and opportunity whenever I’d feel like the work feels like a final product, or at least at a natural stopping point, to work on making and releasing something in print.

ADM: Print is fascinating - Do you think there's a specific character or value that print or a photobook would imbue or enhance "Weaknesses" with - and can you speak on how that format would work with the photographs, or the narrative around “Weaknesses?”

AP: I’ve always seen print/books as the end game for photographs and specifically series of photos or larger projects. As mentioned before, I just really enjoy the tangibility and tactility of these physical objects as opposed to looking at something on a screen. Also I think editing/sequencing and just having the final product in print form adds to the element of spending (more) time with the images in a book versus the more fast paced consumption of images that I think many people are used to with digital consumption.

ADM: So, from that - what final form do you have in mind for “Weaknesses”? a book, or zine - or perhaps an installation of a print series? Are there any particular considerations that you've taken into account while making the images for the project?

AP: I don’t want to tie myself to anything super concrete, as anything can happen really. At this point I’d like to keep it open, but I definitely think something in print and substantial feeling would be a final product I can be proud of.

ADM: Depression and mental illness look different to everyone - what are you looking for when you make your photographs on the topic for this project? Are there any motifs that you find are particularly idiosyncratic to you?

AP: Sure, I respect and certainly understand that mental illness assumes different forms in each unique individual; no two minds are the same. For example, I’ve tried psychotherapy but realized it just wasn’t for me. I tend to work through things more independently, and photography helps me to do that in almost therapeutic ways. You can say that photography is one of my forms of self-therapy. As far as subjects or motifs, I don’t think that I tend to look for specific things that reflect my psychological states. It’s more so the other way around; how I’m feeling or what I’m trying to sort out at any particular moment might dictate or affect what I end up photographing. Sometimes this means that I don’t photograph at all, given the nature of mental illness and how it can really be paralyzing to one’s ability to do anything at all.

I guess if anything, I tend to be drawn more to photograph in places that are perhaps more desolate, or that don’t include a lot of people or any people at all. I don’t ever make portraits at all. I find that the subjects I am drawn to are usually objects or scenes. I probably do have one repeating motif in particular: discarded objects that are left on the ground by people. I find that there is so much mystery in these things that are left behind by someone you’ll probably never know or meet.

ADM: That Definitely tracks with me, and my own experiences. Did you have any particular influence to or on your photographic approach for the project - both on the portrayal of mental illness and your own imagemaking process? These influences can be non-photographic, if that broadens the question for you?

AP: No particular influences really. I think more generally speaking I am probably influenced by photographers who have a very keen eye for detail – smaller, minute things that would go completely unnoticed to the average eye. One photographer in particular who embodies this for me is Phoebe Kiely, whose work was a major influence on me in shifting to primarily black and white, as well as just inspiring me to continue to train my eye to look for those things.

ADM: In addition to your photography, you're also a writer. Do you find there's a natural connection between writing, or words, and photography? If so, how, and if not, why not?

AP: Definitely. At least for me personally, I think there is a connection. I keep multiple notebooks at any given time where I’m constantly writing things down, usually nothing serious or long form, but just kind of a way to keep my mind organized and compartmentalize different things and ideas on paper. The tactility of writing with a pen and paper is always something I’ve enjoyed and even find comfort in. I find the same tactility exists in having a camera in your hands, looking through a viewfinder, pressing the shutter, etc.

Also, I’ve realized that the way I photograph is very instinctive in that I’m almost never having a premeditated idea of what kind of pictures I want to make. When I see a subject I want to capture or a photo that I feel I “need” to make, it’s usually instinctive and instant. With my writing, I think I also write very instinctively and then take a lot more time to edit the text afterward. Having an opportunity to write about photography and photobooks and contribute to a platform (C4 Journal) is great because it’s something I am passionate about anyway, which makes the ideas and words come out a lot more easily.

ADM: When analyzing or writing on photobooks, you mention an instinctual approach - what do you find yourself drawn to writing on in the book format, and does it mirror your approach or focus in the images themselves? Or, do you find that as a writer or critic your concerns are much different than your focuses are in your photographs?

AP: There is definitely an overlap, at least for me. I’ve found that the books I write about, or work that I am interested in writing about, often deal with human emotions in some way. In this sense I feel like my interests naturally gravitate more to that general area. I’m interested in work that is influenced by or speaks on the emotional, psychological, and sociological aspects of existence, I suppose.

ADM: In "Weaknesses" - is there a particular image or sequence within the project that you'd present alone to explain it to someone else? Why that specific image - I know you've mentioned the discarded random items and abandoned places - but is there anything hyperspecific?

AP: It might be, as of now, one particular image which was a result of a lot of manipulation, both accidental and intentional. It started with a color film photograph that I messed up the processing for and couldn’t get the colors right with, so I made it black & white and then through some printing errors, the image became sort of split and cropped; in the end I ended up with a final image that I really like. I think the balance of mishaps and intention are a good reflection of mental and emotional states, where as humans we’re always in this state of flux between our past, present and future selves, and trying to figure out how to deal with trauma, triggers, etc. There is some symbolic imagery within the picture itself as well: the shape of a cross, a sign with the inside missing, a hanging wire, which can be interpreted by the viewer in different or more personal ways.

(Ed Note: The second image presented in the article)

ADM: As someone who writes about, and likely thinks a lot about photobooks - what do you think the key, defining features are of the medium or art object, and do you find yourself seeking them out in your work?

AP: I think editing and sequencing is crucial. Having an edit and sequence that fits whatever you’re trying to communicate with the pictures. This might not be explicit or obvious to anyone viewing the book, but it should at least make sense and feel right to the maker, I’ve definitely tried forcing pictures together into a sequence in the past that just didn’t feel right (to me), and that’s when I knew I had to scrap the work or at least come back to it much later. Also, design is important in that many books nowadays have a very copy and paste kind of aesthetic – essentially just pictures in the middle of paper with white space around them. I like books that feel special in some kind of way I guess. Finally, I think the work should be thought provoking and lead the viewer to think about, question, or at least spend some more time outside of simply looking at the pictures; the best photobooks to me catalyze some form of questioning of perspectives or a wider discussion of a topic, viewpoint, etc.

ADM: What advice would you give to someone working on a project about mental health or mental illness? Is there anything that you've learned while working or continuing to work on "Weakness" that you'd like to share?

AP: I guess I’d say that one’s personal mental health always comes first, and shouldn’t be compromised for the sake of creative work or output. Like I mentioned before, some days are just brutal and the last thing I feel able to do is pick up a camera or think about anything related to photography. I think it’s healthy to just listen to your mind and body first and foremost, and don’t force anything.

ADM: From Erin Cross: If there is a single photo story that you can work on in your lifetime, what would that be and how would you create your images for it?

AP: This is a tough one, I’ve never really thought about it before. I think maybe I’d like to document Vietnam, where my parents are from, in a way that is unique or meaningful to me, whatever that might be. I’ve only been there once when younger and didn’t have a full fledged interest in photography, so I’d probably like to go back and spend time photographing there.

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? (You can answer it yourself if you'd like.)

AP: Do you think there is any value in the “hierarchy” of the photo world, or art world in general, in terms of the division between “gallery artists”, big publishers, etc. and the rest of us trying to just make work that means something personally? In other words, do you think there are pros and cons to both, or do you think there is anything lacking on either side of this divide?

ADM: Thanks so much for the interview! Where can we see more of your work? both photographic and written. Do you have any other parting words or notes?

AP: Thank you for having me! My work can be viewed on my website: subtropicaltrash.biz, or Instagram: @subtropical_trash. Some of my recent writing can be found on c4journal.com with more to come, or follow them @c4journal on Instagram.

Take care of yourselves and others and just do the best you can; it’s all any of us can strive for.

Cruel Summer: Dan Bassini

December 06, 2020 in interview

Dan Bassini talks to Will Hopkins about his latest book, Cruel Summer.

Noir Myths: Erin Cross

November 07, 2020 in interview

Noir Myths: Erin Cross

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those not familiar with you, or your work, would you mind introducing yourself?

Erin Cross (EC): Hello, I’m Erin Cross. I am based in Tokyo, Japan. I’ve been into black and white photography for seven years now - [ED Note - you can read more about Erin’s 7 year BNW career in her own words HERE]

Formerly, I also founded MONØMANIA, the first black and white photography festival in Asia, which later turned out to be a platform.

Beginning this year, though, I decided to focus on my personal projects, specifically self-publishing photozines and (hopefully later on) photobooks.

ADM: Was there a particular personal turning point that prompted you to pursue more of your own personal projects, beyond the festival?

EC: Since I came to Japan three years ago, producing content for MONØMANIA (as a platform) and managing it by myself became a challenge. I’ve tried many times, but there was always something lacking. I realized that I need to take things slower by focusing on my personal projects first, or else my ideas will never be executed at all.

ADM: What's the concept behind "Noir Myths" - I see that it's labeled #1 - Does the series have a particular focus? and What does "cold and gray" mean to you?

EC: NOIR MYTHS is a quarterly photozine that would include visual stories of my life in Japan.

The first volume, Cold and Gray, features a set of film pictures taken on a snowy winter day in Tokyo in 2018. In contrast, I chose to publish this photo story in the summertime because on the same year, I met the love of my life who turned coldness and grayness into the opposite. A short intro can be found on the photozine’s prologue.

I sense that the next volumes of NOIR MYTHS will evolve and evolve. I am not tying this series to just film photographs - although being shot in film is one of the reasons why I wanted to publish in tangible form. I rarely upload my film photographs, so having them compiled as a zine/book emphasizes their “analogue” nature: something which is quite hard to attain nowadays.

ADM: Throughout the zine you make really excellent use of textures to create atmosphere and feeling - from an outside perspective - what would you say inspired that approach?

EC: Thank you. A huge part of this approach was because of my workshop with D’Agata and Hura. During that workshop, I was asked to explain WHY I took such photos and I had to dig really deep into my emotions. So whenever I see shining asphalt or odd-shaped trees, for example, I take pictures of them because they make me feel something. I aim to translate those feelings through my photographs.

ADM: Zooming out a bit, what are your major influences both photographic and musical, for this project and your photography beyond Noir Myths?

Photography influences - I used to draw more inspiration from films back when I started photography. Alfred Hitchcock, Jim Jarmusch, Wong Kar Wai - are some of my all-time favorites.

EC: I “discovered” Japanese [are-bure-boke] style of photography much later on. Masahisa Fukase is probably my favorite Japanese photographer.

On the other hand, music is not the strongest influence in my photography. However, I appreciate the medium and would like to utilize it to magnify the emotions that one can get from “just looking” at photographs.

When using the element of sound, I prefer instrumental only. The lack of lyrics gives attention to the imageries, which to me, is a visual symphony.

Moreover, when my friend skinxbones made the soundtrack for Cold and Gray, I let him create it solely based from the photos in the volume. I plan on collaborating with other musicians, regardless of their genre, for the next NOIR MYTHS volumes with the same “non-instructional” instructions so each time would be a fresh experience.

ADM: What's your assembly and construction process like for your zines and books?

EC: I sequence the images manually. I print very small pictures and then arrange-rearrange them to my liking. I learned a lot about making photo stories during my intensive workshop with Antoine D’Agata and Sohrab Hura in Angkor Photo. That was five years ago, but I always think about the lessons I learned there when I make photo projects now.

ADM: Do you always shoot with an overall project or book in mind?

EC: Ideas always come to me. Though sometimes, some (or probably most) of them are short-lived.

For NOIR MYTHS, though, I’d like to keep my options open. As much as I love repetition in photography, I wouldn’t like this series to appear monotonous all throughout.

Recently, I started posting diptychs of my daily home-work-home routine. I use digital for this, which is great for instantaneous output. It’s also good practice for the eye. I might turn this series into a photozine as well, but nothing yet is set in stone.

One thing is for sure, though. There will always be hints of self-portraits in my works because it’s how I can relate through photography and other people, too.

ADM: What photos or spreads within the zine do you think are most essential to understanding it - you talk briefly about tying in self portraiture and it's importance - can you expound on that as well?

EC: The entire layout of Cold and Gray is essential to appreciating it. I intentionally put two images oppositely adjacent to each other, so that the viewer can look at both images in both directions. Even the cover page (English in front, Japanese on the back) tells the viewer that the photo story can be “read” from left to right (like most Japanese publications). More importantly, the photozine should be viewed along with its special soundtrack - which I had made specifically for it.

Ironically, I didn’t include a self-portrait in Cold and Gray, though there’s a picture of my feet dug in snow - if this counts as a self-portrait. Remember that quote from Lost in Translation when Charlotte said that taking pictures of one’s feet is just every girl’s phase in photography? Guess I’m stuck in that phase forever.

ADM: The "evolution" of Noir Myths or a long term project is familiar, but always fascinating to me. Do you know what you'll do next with it, or have a more specific idea of the next form it will take in the series?

EC: N°2 should come out in late November. It will be very different from Cold and Gray, in the sense that the film pictures won’t come from a single roll. I am collaborating with another musician, whose music I’ve recently discovered. And as for the the visual content, here’s a hint: Nature devours.

ADM: Getting into the music question - how do you fit music together with your photography, or what's your process for creating intertextual experiences between music and photos?

EC: Might have already answered this - But here’s an old photo series (as a slideshow) with music specifically made for it.

ADM: What advice would you give to someone aiming to do a regular zine - ie on a schedule like you're aiming to do your Noir Myths series on?

EC: For any photography project that requires religious updates, the only thing that you can trust or blame is yourself. You move at your own pace. You lag at your own pauses.

With NOIR MYTHS, I plan to release a new volume every time the season here in Japan changes. I think this allows me to come up with the next one without hurrying so much.

I also think that even the rise and fall of temperature influences my motivation a lot. I find it hard to progress in the summertime, but when it's cooler, I suddenly become unstoppable.

ADM: From Kyle J. Kohner: Outside of other photographers and photobooks, where do you find inspiration for your own photography?

EC: Aside from films, which I mentioned in #9, I also draw inspiration from all the daily scenes I encounter, which is probably why I like repetition in photography.

For instance, I pass by the same train stations to and from work, and to me, looking closer at the usual, ordinary things I see along the way allow me to see them differently.

I try to be inspired even if there's "nothing" to see. It's my own way of interpreting bits of my life here. A life less ordinary.

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? you can answer it yourself if you'd like.

EC: For the next photographer: If there is a single photo story that you can work on in your lifetime, what would that be and how would you create your images for it?

For me, I would love to work on a very intimate photo story of my family and I would like to do it for as long as I live. It sucks that we're all living in different places now and I only have a few portraits of my mom, dad, and siblings.

ADM: Thanks so much for doing the interview! Where can we see more of your work, and purchase a copy of NOIR MYTHS (both this issue and the upcoming one, when it becomes available)? Do you have any other parting words and advice?

EC: NOIR MYTHS is available through erincrxss.com and also on KungFu Camera, The Phooks, artbooksph, and soon on Unobtanium — to mention a few

Songs About Being Forgotten: Kyle J. Kohner

October 25, 2020 in interview

Songs About Being Forgotten: Kyle J. Kohner

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those not familiar with you or your work, can you introduce yourself, and give us a brief introduction to your work?

Kyle J. Kohner (KJK): My name is Kyle Kohner; I am a 24-year-old street photographer from the LA area (La Mirada, Calif), but was born and raised in San Bernardino, CA. I picked up photography in my sophomore year in college, was hooked, and with the help of a couple of my professors and photography friends, I never looked back. I mainly do film photography, black and white 35mm to be exact. However, if I am on assignment for work, I will shoot digital. During my final semester as an undergrad, I took a darkroom photography class, and from the course came the genesis of my first body of work, a zine I've titled "Songs About Being Forgotten."

ADM: We're talking about "Songs About Being Forgotten" - where did the concept come from, and can you speak on the title?

KJK: I like to think of "Songs About Being Forgotten" as a not-yet reckoning of fear. This project's title and concept was birthed from fear and uncertainty that I've always felt but could never gauge through words alone. A fear of finality, death, and not being remembered was especially palpable during my final year of college, where years of mental illness peaked. The initial form/draft, which was created during my last semester, was a reactionary pushback to this fear. Still, I'm trying to push back against this fear, and this zine is the vehicle. I call the photos within this project "songs," mainly because music and photography meet at this very magical intersection for me. Combining the two seemed like the perfect way for me to convey this fear of being "forgotten.

ADM: Are there particular aesthetic considerations that you took into account while creating the project - I know the whole thing is in black and white - but is there a particular purpose behind it, and the tonality you used - I know the collage nature of the book is a nod to Phil Elverum (below).

KJK: The reasoning for doing black and white was pretty straightforward—it helps convey the impermanence of decay and things forgotten. Many of the photos are high in contrast, which renders the ephemeral themes dark and drab. As you mentioned, I wanted to give off a collage nature to the book, akin to not just Elverum, but inner sleeves and liner notes of physical music in general. With the very first iteration of this zine, the class project, I did not know much about design or sequencing. In fact, I boringly constructed it out in a simple pattern: page with lyrics, then page with photo, page with lyrics, etc. After a year or so of looking at more photo books and zines, I was able to better understand the importance of sequencing and design, which now, this version of the book compels more in comparison to my first-ever copy.

ADM: Is there a particular narrative form you used for the zine? - I noticed throughout you used some repetition and photocollages - alongside consistent written excerpts.

KJK: I love the concept of an album cover, yet the pressure of picking an image to capture the music inside is daunting. As mentioned a bit earlier, photography and music have always had this fascinating intersect, and the photos inside, again, are these visual songs—album covers even. The book is square, slightly bigger than a CD, and smaller than an LP or EP. Inside, I paired the images with lyrics from songs that have at some point in my life devastated me as I struggle through the concepts of finality and the high likelihood that what I say or create now won't matter 70 years from now. The visual layout, in fact, was largely influenced by the visual work of singer-songwriter Phil Elverum, aka The Microphones, aka Mount Eerie. I love how Elverum designs and incorporates his photography with his music. If you check out his latest album (which is just one long song) on YouTube, you'll see that it's just Phil laying down photos he's taken over the years, one-by-one, to reflect his journey as a musical artist over the past two decades. But he's also thoughtful when designing the album art for his LP's and CD's, inside and out. With most of his projects, he sprawls handwritten lyrics across a collage of photos. His design for The Microphones 2001 album "The Glow Pt. 2" particularly sparked that of my collection of photographs. I'd love to explain the sequencing and narrative, but I'm also a believer that we can create our own stories from photos within a body of work, separate from the artist's intentions, by merely perceiving them. So I'd rather have viewers of the zine to figure it out for themselves.

ADM: From that - what would you say the most essential images are to understanding the project are - what songs did you pair them with, and why?

KJK: This one is hard to answer as I tried not to pin the weight of this project on one photo because I try not to shoot with a mindset of capturing the best singular image or that "decisive moment." But if any, I believe the images of charred buildings speak to me and the project the loudest. These two photos were the genesis behind this project, and I was able to pair it with a song that I felt best captured to the idea of "being forgotten." The track that particularly called out to me—and I hesitate to mention it—was "Carissa" by Sun Kil Moon (Mark Kozelek). On the track, he sings of his second cousin Carissa who died in an improbable housefire. She was a regular blue-collar individual living in the midwest, and Mark barely knew her. And yet, despite how menial her life seemingly was, he wanted to impress meaning upon her life, long passed her death, with this song. I find this most beautiful and admirable. After including this song in my book (paired with these two photos), it came to light that Kozelek is a fucking creep and an abuser. I almost expunged the track from my zine, but then the final product would have been unauthentic and merely reactionary to what had happened. Though I have since removed his music from my life, I cannot deny the impact this song had on me. I would probably point to the image of shoes hanging from the telephone wire as my favorite. It's a bit cliche, but I love how the shoes are still emphasized even when crowded by the bushy textures beneath.

ADM: What do you think the biggest advancements you made were over the course of the project? in terms of sequencing, and also shooting?

KJK: As someone who studied journalism in college, I once held to this idea that I MUST be clear as possible for the sake of my audience. Heck, this level of transparency is and should be applied for a lot of photojournalistic work because vagueness is a sign of an untrustworthy author. But with this project, especially regarding the sequencing, I had to reorient my learned approach to create something more personal and trusting of my audience, instead. I've always feared being misunderstood and not being clear, yet the way I've sequenced and even shot the photos for this zine was a way for me to give that fear up. So I'd say the most significant advancement I experienced through this project was the willingness to trust my audience and trust that the photos would convey more words than I could.

ADM: What was your collaborative process like? Prior to the interview you'd mentioned working with Max Heilman and Brooks Ginnan.

KJK: This project is much more than the zine itself. In fact, I paired it with a split single—two original songs. One track titled "Stream Of Silhouettes" is a super atmospheric piece of post-rock, written and performed by Maxwell Heilman and his band Anhelar. The other is a raw, emotively lo-fi cut titled "The Devil Inside of Me," written and performed by Brooks Ginnan. Aside from being a musician, Brooks also happens to be an up-and-coming model featured in films, music videos, and even in Vogue Italia. Though the songs are two entirely different worlds—one brooding, layered, and room-filling and the other stripped-down, haunting, and intimate—they share the same desperate spirit that yearns through affliction. I've known both Brooks and Max for six years. Because I've stayed connected with them longer than any other friends, they are sort of this antithesis to the idea of being forgotten. They represent laughter, love, and long-lasting memories—things that push back against the danger of being forgotten. Because of this friendship, I had to include them within this project. To best capture the zine's essence, I sent PDF copies to the two of them, and they provided me music they felt best reflected what they viewed. "Songs About Being Forgotten" is the fruit of this collaboration.

ADM: Was there a specific turning point that pushed you to print the zine up and put it out there, publicly?

I think like many people who have created and released some artwork lately, the pandemic really pushed me to buckle down and say hey," let's get this done finally." If there ever was a time to release something into the world, now was the time. It was an opportunity to take what has been a disadvantageous moment in history for everyone, make something beautiful out of it, and collaborate with other brilliant minds. No, I wouldn't call this my "COVID Zine/book," as this photo project has been in the making for almost two years. However, I'm sure we will be seeing a saturation of COVID-related projects from photographers within the next year, haha.

ADM: You've talked about musical influences (though feel free to add more if you'd like) but are there any other visual or photographic influences on the zine?

KJK: Studying journalism in college, I took a few photojournalism courses. The professor who taught all of them wanted us, students, to learn from the greats, sequentially. I loved this approach because it allowed our photographically naive eyes to appreciate the trailblazers of street photography. That said, one of my earliest inspirations was Elliot Erwitt. People point to him and notice the humor and irony in his work (which I always try to draw from), but he inspires me because his pictures are emotion(s) rather than reflective of emotion(s). (Which in fact, he is quoted saying, "I want pictures that are emotion.") I picked the photos I did for this zine for the same reason—I wanted to curate images that are what they feel like. I can also pinpoint three current favorites of mine—some more known than others. As of recent, Charalampos Kydonakis, aka Dirty Harry, is the first that comes to mind. His photos literally jump at you with an uncanny energy. He has an unparalleled ability to capture the oddities of life in all of its mundanity, so beautifully. His work is so surreal and is so incredibly impressive because of it. The second photographer is Dylan Hausthor. Though his photos are clearly tethered to a specific place that my own photography is not familiar with, his work has a spiritual and mythical quality that I aspire to channel with my own (though my attempts do not hold a flame to the magic Dylan captures). His use of light is also unlike anything I've seen from another photographer, especially when illuminating the organic textures a place [like] Maine lends itself to. There are many more photographers and their work I enjoy right now, and I'd love to mention them all.

ADM: What advice do you have for someone taking a pre-existing project (like the one you made in class) and refining it or repurposing it like you did (ie turning it into a collaboration, and a multimedia project)?

KJK: My advice to someone who wants to take a pre-existing project and refining it/repurposing it, is to simply be honest with yourself. I think one of the most horrible yet beautiful things about creating art is looking back at the things you DID. Almost always, for me at least, I writhe in disgust over photos I took even as early as three months ago. But being able to look at your older material and critique it with honesty will allow you to tap into what you truly want to create. For this project, I carried over about half the material from the very first version because I hated everything else in it—though I thought it was the best damn thing when I first put the zine together, haha. But my advice is best served as a double-edged sword. I think that though one needs to be honest with themself, they also need to trust their work and build up the courage to publish that zine, book, series of prints, or whatever they are working on. There comes a point where if you keep waiting, you'll never be satisfied with what you create. Thankfully, I just missed that exit and was able to just say, "Fuck it." For me, that point came with the desire to bring in people I love and cherish into the fold to make it a gratifying experience.

ADM: From Stefan Byrom: Which photographers/artists out there do you admire other than the more well known ones?

KJK: I want to mention Justin Yun. Though he happens to be one of my best friends, I, along with many others in the photo community, would agree he possesses a rare talent for his age. Unfortunately, he tends to keep to himself and remains reserved when putting his work out there. There are countless photographers out there who try to explore the concept of dreams and memories. But no one is as in-touch with these ideas and how to artfully reflect them than Justin. The way he can tap into these dreams and memories has helped inform my ability to go into my own subconscious to take photos that, again, "are emotion."

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? - you can answer it yourself if you'd like.

KJK: Outside of other photographers and photobooks, where do you find inspiration for your own photography?

ADM: Thanks again for doing the interview! Any parting words or advice? Where can we pick up a copy of the zine?

KJK: Bring your camera with you at ALL times. If you don't like carrying one around, get a point-and-shoot for casual outings and errands. Support your photography friends. Love one another as yourself; you'll be a lot happier than you could be, I promise. Always be fighting injustice in the world. No matter how small or big the gesture—it adds up—not toward points, but a better world around for those who are disadvantaged. Listen to new music—always. The world needs escaping sometimes, and music is the perfect way to flee.

If you find yourself interested, you can purchase my zine at kylekohner.com/shop and can check out more of my work there as well.

Northern Class: Stefan Byrom

October 03, 2020 in interview

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Hi Stefan, Could you please introduce yourself and describe your work to the audience, in case they're not familiar?

Stefan Byrom (SB): My name’s Stefan Byrom currently living in Rochdale Greater Manchester. i would say my work is an honest documentation of life in northern working class Britain as it is today, but also has those hints of nostalgia thrown in there.

ADM: We're talking about "Northern Class" - for those who aren't familiar with that world (ie for the Americans like me) can you speak a bit more about Northern England, and the working class there - or what compelled you to pick up a camera and document it?

SB: the actual term working class refers to people who are engaged in waged or salaried labour but more specifically manual labour jobs and industrial work. The north of England at one time was a power house for manufacturing goods so we had a lot of mill towns and mining towns, which over the years has died out really. Work for a lot of people has become a lot harder to find but also the price of living has gone up to a point where a lot of families struggle to get by. So to me the term working class and the meaning of it has changed, i feel it's a lot more about the struggle of living and the characters that make up life in the north. i grew up on a council estate in a working-class town in broken Britain so i’ve also lived it. Alot of people do what they have to to survive and to me that’s so interesting, watching how people adapt to and deal with poverty and austerity.

ADM: The zine really covers a lot of ground - what images from it do you think are the most critical to understanding Northern England's working class, and why?

SB:I think the cover photo for a start and the washing hanging from the apartment window says a lot about the struggle of working class life but then you have this make do approach to life like with the bin being secured with tape to keep the rubbish in. most of the bin men /waste removal men won’t take your bin if its overflowing but that’s a common problem because rubbish isn’t collected regularly anymore, so it obviously builds up which sort of ties in with the mattresses and things like that, people can’t pay to get them removed etc so they are usually just discarded in an alleyway or on some wasteland in the hope the council will remove it .then you have the photo with he shopping in the pram for instance they are all ways of getting by without a lot of money and just doing what you have to do to survive.

ADM: What was your working process like? How did you shoot the zine, and what was your final selection and assembly process like?

SB: I wouldn’t say i intentionally went out with the idea of creating a zine, i'm constantly out taking photographs and a lot of the time they just end up in the archive or getting lost in the instagram feed, but i had bit of a period where i wasn’t feeling life mentally and instead of sulking i ended up putting the zine together aha. I'd like to create a proper version of it someday maybe in book form.

ADM: I definitely get that. What would you add to the zine to make it into a book - would you do anything different or investigate or document something you hadn't previously?

SB: I think if I was going to eventually make it into a book I would have to be a lot more intimate and get a bit deeper into people's lives, so making a lot more personal connections would be a good place to start with that.

ADM: When you're out shooting is there a particular method you employ? or do you sort of always have a camera on you and constantly document?

SB: I usually always start my day the same, I wake up and put music on, I think that’s always a good way to set your day off mood wise. i always visit my local shop in the morning and get a drink too. After that it really depends on my mood or what I'm feeling or maybe I’ll have a certain place in mind and i'll just make my way to that. I go with the flow quite a lot while i’m out and I carry my camera absolutely everywhere so i have no excuses aha.

ADM: There are quite a few portraits in Northern Class - what was your approach to getting your subjects to have their picture taken?

SB: To be honest, I don’t have that much of an approach, I think just being out all the time and them being familiar with me has sparked their interest. I’d say 90 percent of the people in the portraits asked me for their photo to be taken ,usually they will ask me what i'm doing and i’ll say something like i'm working on a book about my town or the north, and that then they are like get a picture of me or something similar aha.

ADM: did you have any major influences for Northern Class, photographic or otherwise? And would you mind sharing why or how they influenced your work?

SB: Northern Class is a collection of my ongoing work so i wouldn’t say anyone really influenced me to make it but as for my work in general i'm influenced by Eggelston, Shirley Baker, Harry Gruyaert, Dougie Wallace, John Bulmer, and more recently Evelyn Hofer. The tones/colour and the way they compose their work has to be admired - if you get composition right you can make some really powerful works - I'm always looking at them for inspiration. My work itself is inspired by my life and how i grew up and the things i've seen, using what you know well is so powerful.

ADM: Looking forward, is your focus more on expanding this project, or will you move on to a new project? If so, what's next?

SB: yeah i think moving forward it will be about building on what i have and refining it and just seeing where that takes me really and what other doors will open; I guess we'll just have to wait and see aha.

ADM: What advice would you give to someone attempting to document their community, like you have in Northern Class?

SB: The best advice I could give is always have your camera on you because some of the best stuff happens when you aren’t actively looking for it, but also be observant like understand what makes your community your community and then tell that story. The more you are in that area and the more hours you put in the better chance you have of doing that.

ADM: from Adali Schell: “What drives you to take photos, rather than making films or writing or expressing yourself in another way?”

SB: This is such a hard question because i think it's all sorts of things aha, in a way i'm challenging myself but i'm also trying to show the world that there’s a lot to be admired about from where your from, no matter how gritty or bad you feel the place is, it's like making positives from negatives and for me photography is one of the best ways of showing that other than film, i guess with photography though you really have time to take in an image and i think that can be a lot more powerful.

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? You can answer it yourself if you'd like to.

SB: Which photographers/artists out there do you admire other than the more well known ones?

ADM: Thanks so much for the interview - do you have any parting words or advice?

SB: Thank you too it was a pleasure… up the dale! and wu-tang forever!!!

You, Me, We, Them: Adali Schell

August 02, 2020 in interview

You, Me, We, Them: Adali Schell

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar, could you introduce yourself and your work?

Adali Schell (AS): Hi, my name is Adali Schell, I'm 19 years old and a street photographer from LA and I'm developing my first self published book/zine. I've been shooting LA's streets since I was 14, so this is something like six years in the making. I've been drawn to the streets since I was little - to get to my elementary school my mom would take Hollywood Boulevard, and even then I remember peering out the window, fascinated by LA's unique street culture and life. As I grew, I became aware of LA's superficiality driven by Hollywood, social media and our collective quench for fame, wealth, and materialistic longings, yet, as an Angeleno, I knew of an authenticity to LA that has never been shown to the rest of the world.

I started shooting after seeing Finding Vivian Maier, a documentary on the 20th century NYC/Chicago street photographer. Through this film, I discovered the world of street photography which prompted an awakening within myself as to how I can translate my frustrations around LA's misrepresentation into a meaningful and creative exercise. I picked up a camera and never turned back I suppose. Moving on from digital to analog film, studying photographers like Joel Meyerowitz, Garry Winogrand, Richard Sandler, Lee Friedlander and even younger, active photographers like Daniel Arnold, Todd Gross, Joey Prince, John Harding, Colleen Combs, Ben Molina, Aaron Berger, Geoff Haggray, Julian Master, Troy Holden, Jonathan Walker, Todd Fisher... I'll stop here to be polite. This list goes on for years.

ADM: On it's face your upcoming zine is a compilation of your work from 2017 to now - is there a particular theme that unites the photos you chose, and what was your experience like, selecting photos retrospectively?

AS: I like to rely on my subconscious. While shooting, I try to rid myself of my conscious mind to let my innermost mind speak - I don't second guess the impulse to shoot, if I feel it, I snap it. I don't spend any time thinking about the shot, I try to capture it as closely to how I saw it. I've learned that I am just as much an instrument as the camera is. Everything I've ever shot first came through my eyes and brain, then to my camera. I am the filter to this otherwise disorienting and upsetting world. Not to pride myself too much. And of course, I went into this with a general idea of what I hoped to create - something reminiscent of Daniel Arnold craziness, with Friedlander-like composition, Winogrand-like impulse, Meyerowitz-like romanticism, and Maier-like mystery. But what I believe distinguished my work from another street photographers work is that my work is based in LA - an undershot and misrepresented city, with it's masses and unique culture left in the shadows as fabricated Marvel movies and sexy action explosion movies are filmed and projected onto the eyes of the world. No disrespect to Hollywood, but I have realized that there is an undeniable vacuum left here - story's to be told, characters to be written and talked about, experiences to be empathized with, laughed with (or maybe even at,) and neighborhoods, people, and moments to be remembered - proof of a relatively short, bleak and irrelevant existence, proof to be remembered, thought of, and loved. In many ways, my photography is largely an existential outlet, an exercise to cope with my existence, in an abstraction and as a physical being. A constant collaboration with my environment - constantly judging, critiquing, hating, and loving. My admiration stems from this spectrum of emotions.

And I realize that once I'd be hundreds and hundreds of rolls into shooting for this project, this would soon be a reflection of my subconscious state more so than my conscious state, as I found myself fighting to reflect what I created in my head, as I'd be constantly disappointed that one can never perfectly articulate what is on their mind - in words or through photos, drawings, music, etc., whereas letting my subconscious go was far from being a strenuous task. And in this incoherent three year long subconscious ramble, pushing aside any expectation or desire, I found that I would create some sort of thematic unity, as a pure flow of inner thought made tangible through something like 64,000 35mm frames could yield some sort of consistency. Or so I hope.

Selecting the photos has been tough. I've been looking at this zine a few times a week, but it takes time to understand which photos should be paired together and which should be shown alone. Especially because these are living, breathing documents I'm working with. What they mean now in 2020 will be entirely different than what they mean in 2050. These photographs reflect a one of one description of a time and place. In the moment, especially with our innate numbness to instant digital cameras like our phones, we often forget this. Only upon reflection do we realize this, as you and me probably have, going through our parents photographs of them in highschool, college, early lives - a relatively shitty photo of a woman then may reflect a lost and nostalgic aesthetic of colors that we don't see anymore, of clothing, make up and hair styles that have been out of style for decades, etc. Who knows what will be interesting to look at decades from now. Because of this, I try to exist in 2050, thinking of what can be interesting now to someone from then. As I shoot, sometimes I pretend to be a person from 2050 who gets to spend one day in 2020. But yes, theme - I suppose everything that makes LA, LA - materialism, poverty vs affluence, desperation, politics, love; to be and to love, struggle, absurdity, chaos, energy, mundane beauty, irony, humour, etc. If I can check half of these boxes I think I'll feel good about this work.

ADM: Where does the name "you, me, we, them" come from? Is there a particular image, or set of images in the zine that explain the title?

AS: "You, me, we, them" comes from how I feel about being an entity. Kind of what I said in my last answer. I struggle with existing. I'm constantly fidgeting, anxious, thinking about the next moment or the moment before, what I don't have in the moment. Also being a physical being who can affect someone else is weird to me. And photography has been some sort of escape of the physical realm to me. I can kind of dissolve. Capturing fleeting moments, rarely being noticed. In a thick crowd just one of thousands, what do I matter? So this title is kind of an analysis of that idea, my relationship with others, and myself, mentally and physically.

I've actually had a hard time trying to think of one image that encapsulates this idea. I don't think that I've made it yet. A lot of them are close, but not quite there. Mostly because of how I've divided this work up by location - oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the zine is in like four chapters; Hollywood, Downtown, Santa Monica, and miscellaneous - because LA is so sprawled out, I've shot designated locations with high people density to kind of carry over what I learned from NYC photographers and apply it to LA. But it's really different out here and needs to be shot in it's own way which is what I'm realizing right now. That will require more space and desolation, and an isolation of subject matter. Less chaos. I can pick photos that describe my feelings about one specific location, but not about all of LA. But I hope that the collection of all of these photographs, in the sequence that they'll be in can spell that out.

ADM: That's definitely a broad statement of being - what's next or what's the next project after you wrap up the finalized book? Or will you continue to shoot and collect another collection, without direct regard for a project?

AS: I'm not too sure honestly. My LA street work has consumed so many years and I was just forced to wrap it up given the coronavirus situation. I think it would feel wrong to keep the project going since we are completely rethinking our social and commuting habits. This is a moment of great change and the street won’t look as it did for a very long time. Not to say I’m done taking street photographs, but I think I will be wrapping up this particular street project. I’m intending to publish this zine now, and in maybe twenty years I'll try and publish this work in a serious book, that way I can give these photographs the gift of time to evolve and mature into whatever context that 20 years could create.

Since covid broke out, I started working on a new project that looks at LA's urban color palette and geometry. I started riding my bike everyday since traffic has died down, and I've been lugging around my heavy 6x7 camera in my backpack which seriously sucks so I hope that I've been producing some strong images. It's kind of this blend of street and landscape photography. I've never felt connected to landscape photography because I've never felt familiar with nature, but what I've realized is that all photographs describe concretely are lines, shapes, and colors, and any deeper meaning about emotion or whatever is an interpretation which is subjective. But the geometry is what it is, and indisputable. So I've studied some landscape photographers like Shore and Sternfeld, and have gotten drawn in by their composition and occasional ironies. Like the one sternfeld shot of Mount Rushmore with the tangled rack holding satellite dishes in the foreground. That rules. And the firemen walking through a pumpkin patch with a blazing fire in the distance. And Shore's shot of the tiny church in the middle of nowhere. I couldn't believe these photographs when I first saw them because they convey the same feelings I get from Meyerowitz and Winogrand photographs. But they're taken on 8x10 field cameras and fit the category of landscape photos. I've also drawn from classical paintings. There's this one section at the Getty museum that is dedicated to relatively realistic Venetian landscape paintings that are huge and full of crazy detail. I'm into those colors and compositions and infinite depth of field. And what I'm doing draws from those ironies and geometric configurations. Beyond actual subject matter, I'm looking through what I'm shooting and seeing lines and light. I hope it becomes something.

And on my 35mm camera, I've tried shooting a couple of things for fun, nothing as serious as the street work I've worked on for so many years. I've been shooting off my bike, probably with my handle bars in the foreground of whatever catches my eye. I haven't seen any of these images yet so I don't know if it's coherent or anything. Admittedly, I have sometimes been seeing a very small group of friends in these past five months, and I hope that those photographs maybe can radiate a feeling of heightened angst amidst the pandemic, a naivety to thinking we're less at risk or maybe even invincible, teens who are either bored, horny or depressed, yearning for activity, attention, a reason to get out of bed. We're existing in unchartered waters. I don't really know what I'm doing either. I've just turned 19 and am a part of the class of 2020. And taking photos has been a remedy to life's absurdity and my struggles because of. I think I'm OK at it. And this has all been very challenging for me as it has been for all of us. Yet in spite of my mental haze and desperation, I hope my photographs carry a theme and coherency.

ADM: What was your shooting process like? and did it change over the three and a half years you compiled this body of work over?

AS: The shooting process started with a digital camera that I actually bought with my bar mitzvah money at age 13 ; I used that for something like 4 years, until my dad showed me his old Nikon Nikkormat SLR with a 24mm prime (what I still use today.) Then I took a Darkroom Photography course at SVA in NYC one summer and was properly introduced to film. So I shot exclusively black and white for a while, doing my own developing and printing, not scanning anything, keeping it entirely analog. Then I eventually became curious to explore color and started to digitize my work. That was the summer of 2018 when I felt like I developed the foundational skill that is necessary. Since then I've done something like 1800 rolls probably, all in LA. That's like 64,800 photographs, and I'm selecting only 80 or 100, which at most is only like 0.0015 of the photographs I've made since shooting film. God only knows how many digital photos came before and also during then.

ADM: You speak quite a bit about documenting Los Angeles - how did you get there (are you a native angeleno?), and what inspires you to document the city? What have you discovered in your photos?

AS: Yeah, I'm from LA. Born and raised! I've always been frustrated over LA's misrepresentation which also inspired me to do something about it. The superficiality that this city is advertised to be is not really what it is. I've only known of an authentic LA. I grew up in Los Feliz which is wedged in between Thai Town and Little Armenia in the East Hollywood area. When I was 14, I realized that the camera could be used as a weapon against that, to describe how authentic and beautiful this city really is when you don't buy into the Hollywood and Kardashian crap. I also wanted to show the world, or at least my Instagram followers what other Angelenos look like. Not just Tom Cruise and Kim K., but those of us who keep this city running. The jewelry store worker in Downtown. The tourists in Hollywood. The street performers on the Pier. These people have never had a spotlight and I have tried to give them one in a sense.

ADM: You mention a broad gathering of influences - is there something, a thread, that unites them, and how do you relate to your influences?

AS: I think that my influences are united by character. If they're distinct and also funny or ironic. Winogrand, Meyerowitz, Levitt, Sternfeld, Friedlander, Cohen, these photographers took strong photographs that were also sometimes funny. There's often a tension that exists, either in composure, or color, or emotion. And in paintings, I see lines and colors as I do in photographs. So to me they're basically the same thing, except that to make a photograph you are deconstructing the world around you and in a painting you are constructing from the world around you.

ADM: Jumping on that - your work largely seems to fit into the Street Photography tradition - what is Street Photography to you, and more generally, what is Photography to you?

AS: Like Winogrand once said, I feel like the term "street photography" is pretty silly. It doesn't tell you anything about the picture or the work. But the values that are attached to street photography are mostly akin to that of photojournalism; truth, grit, transparency, humanity, empathy. I like those traits and look to recreate them. But I feel that street photography is less serious than photojournalism, so I also look for those humorous aspects. On a broader note, photography is a reason. A reason to live at the very least, a reason to go out, a reason to be in that area or to step through those doors into that room, a reason to be present, a reason to think about your placement in the world, a reason to think about where you stand in society and your relationship to your peers and neighbors. A reason to think of where we come from historically and a reason to feel obligated to be an informed citizen of the world. A reason to be empathetic to others, a reason to be concerned about politics and the state of the world and humanity. And in today's climate, I think that we all need to be politically engaged, for environmental reasons, for humanitarian reasons, for ethical reasons.

ADM: So, this is part curiosity of my own, but that's a ton of film to shoot, I know that shooting on film and digital don't really line up on an even ratio, but how do you shoot such a high volume? or what keeps you shooting at such a high volume?

AS: I have tried to shoot less but I can't. I think it'd be better to shoot less. Henry Wessel, a really amazing and renowned San Francisco photographer spent his lifetime shooting SF but he never "went out to take photos." Rather, he went about his day, driving and running errands, doing whatever he does and he carried his camera with him and created an incredible body of work. Whereas with me, I am always searching for photos. There isn't really a moment where it isn't at the front of my mind. I think that this causes me to shoot a lot but also causes me to kind of go insane, my practice is like a never ending search for something that doesn't actually exist, this search for meaning, for clarity. I think to put it into relative terms for someone who isn't a photographer, I feel like there is a word I'm trying to use that I can't remember, and it's on the tip of my tongue, forever. And at every opportunity trying to rephrase what I mean, I can't quite do it. It's this restlessness that keeps me going. Even with my favorite photographs that I've made, I feel like I've missed the mark by a tad, I think I only have like five photographs I've ever taken where I feel like I described exactly what I wanted to.

ADM: What's your key tip on shooting so much, and what key advice would you give to someone about throwing themselves deep into photography?

AS: I can only speak on behalf of my experiences, but what's kept me going is my own frustrations. Aside from photography, I've always had a hard time saying what I mean; with my parents and friends, also especially in past relationships that admittedly still live and rot in my conscious. I hate to say this but I am one to replay scenarios in my head over and over again, getting that last word in, or dwelling on the hypotheticals if something would’ve gone differently. The act of making photographs has been therapeutic in many ways and particularly with this - to spend so much time on one particular moment at a sliver of a second - shooting, developing, scanning, printing, reviewing, etc, it is comforting to become 100% familiar and comfortable with a moment that I lived in. I also had a few tough years from age 14 to 16 where I lived in the suburbs and completely shut down socially. There was like a three month window where I got back on my feet but I quickly stumbled again as I had completely lost myself and most of anything that I found desirable in my life. But while three years isn't very long generally, when you're 15 it is, and my photography is a blatant act where I'm trying to overcorrect for those years lost. Memories that I could've had, trouble I could’ve got in, photographs I could’ve made, friends I could've had, girls I could've loved, etc. I've tried to overwhelm my time now and these coming years. Third, I can't sit still, I need to be out seeing and breathing and living and feeling or I get really antsy and depressed, I think this is an effect of feeling like I've lost time. Lastly, for existential reasons, life is short and I want something to show, a proof of my own existence and of others existence in this otherwise short and bleak world. I, like most others, hope to leave something behind, and the idea of leaving behind a book or prints or some photographic documentation describing what this moment and people and environment and city looked and felt like is really enticing to me.

ADM: From David Gilbert Wright: If you could travel back in time, which photographer from history would you most like to interview for this magazine, and why?

AS: Tough question, probably Vivian Maier since there is practically no information on her!

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? you can answer it yourself if you'd like.

AS: What drives you to take photos, rather than making films or writing or expressing yourself in another way?

ADM: Where can we pick up copies of the zine and book? Also where can we see more of your work, and do you have any parting words or advice?

AS: You can reserve a copy for the zine by contacting me through Instagram @advli or through my email, adalischell@gmail.com. I might set up a thing on my site to buy one but I want to keep it personal, I like the idea of the person coming directly through me than through a website where they don't actually read my own words that I've personally typed out with my own thumbs specially for them. I also have two photographs being published in the book "To Live & Cry in LA" which is being produced by 35m Pro, a lab out in Sherman Oaks, with work consisting of 60-something LA photographers who documented the height of the BLM movement. That is currently being produced and should be made available to purchase sometime soonish.

Hi, If you’ve read this far - thanks for reading! Typically we’d stump for donations to the website to keep it up, but in light of the ongoing unrest in the states we’d encourage you to donate to a cause of your choosing instead. This whole thing is a link to a linktree.