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Songs About Being Forgotten: Kyle J. Kohner

October 25, 2020 in interview

Songs About Being Forgotten: Kyle J. Kohner

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those not familiar with you or your work, can you introduce yourself, and give us a brief introduction to your work?

Kyle J. Kohner (KJK): My name is Kyle Kohner; I am a 24-year-old street photographer from the LA area (La Mirada, Calif), but was born and raised in San Bernardino, CA. I picked up photography in my sophomore year in college, was hooked, and with the help of a couple of my professors and photography friends, I never looked back. I mainly do film photography, black and white 35mm to be exact. However, if I am on assignment for work, I will shoot digital. During my final semester as an undergrad, I took a darkroom photography class, and from the course came the genesis of my first body of work, a zine I've titled "Songs About Being Forgotten."

ADM: We're talking about "Songs About Being Forgotten" - where did the concept come from, and can you speak on the title?

KJK: I like to think of "Songs About Being Forgotten" as a not-yet reckoning of fear. This project's title and concept was birthed from fear and uncertainty that I've always felt but could never gauge through words alone. A fear of finality, death, and not being remembered was especially palpable during my final year of college, where years of mental illness peaked. The initial form/draft, which was created during my last semester, was a reactionary pushback to this fear. Still, I'm trying to push back against this fear, and this zine is the vehicle. I call the photos within this project "songs," mainly because music and photography meet at this very magical intersection for me. Combining the two seemed like the perfect way for me to convey this fear of being "forgotten.

ADM: Are there particular aesthetic considerations that you took into account while creating the project - I know the whole thing is in black and white - but is there a particular purpose behind it, and the tonality you used - I know the collage nature of the book is a nod to Phil Elverum (below).

KJK: The reasoning for doing black and white was pretty straightforward—it helps convey the impermanence of decay and things forgotten. Many of the photos are high in contrast, which renders the ephemeral themes dark and drab. As you mentioned, I wanted to give off a collage nature to the book, akin to not just Elverum, but inner sleeves and liner notes of physical music in general. With the very first iteration of this zine, the class project, I did not know much about design or sequencing. In fact, I boringly constructed it out in a simple pattern: page with lyrics, then page with photo, page with lyrics, etc. After a year or so of looking at more photo books and zines, I was able to better understand the importance of sequencing and design, which now, this version of the book compels more in comparison to my first-ever copy.

ADM: Is there a particular narrative form you used for the zine? - I noticed throughout you used some repetition and photocollages - alongside consistent written excerpts.

KJK: I love the concept of an album cover, yet the pressure of picking an image to capture the music inside is daunting. As mentioned a bit earlier, photography and music have always had this fascinating intersect, and the photos inside, again, are these visual songs—album covers even. The book is square, slightly bigger than a CD, and smaller than an LP or EP. Inside, I paired the images with lyrics from songs that have at some point in my life devastated me as I struggle through the concepts of finality and the high likelihood that what I say or create now won't matter 70 years from now. The visual layout, in fact, was largely influenced by the visual work of singer-songwriter Phil Elverum, aka The Microphones, aka Mount Eerie. I love how Elverum designs and incorporates his photography with his music. If you check out his latest album (which is just one long song) on YouTube, you'll see that it's just Phil laying down photos he's taken over the years, one-by-one, to reflect his journey as a musical artist over the past two decades. But he's also thoughtful when designing the album art for his LP's and CD's, inside and out. With most of his projects, he sprawls handwritten lyrics across a collage of photos. His design for The Microphones 2001 album "The Glow Pt. 2" particularly sparked that of my collection of photographs. I'd love to explain the sequencing and narrative, but I'm also a believer that we can create our own stories from photos within a body of work, separate from the artist's intentions, by merely perceiving them. So I'd rather have viewers of the zine to figure it out for themselves.

ADM: From that - what would you say the most essential images are to understanding the project are - what songs did you pair them with, and why?

KJK: This one is hard to answer as I tried not to pin the weight of this project on one photo because I try not to shoot with a mindset of capturing the best singular image or that "decisive moment." But if any, I believe the images of charred buildings speak to me and the project the loudest. These two photos were the genesis behind this project, and I was able to pair it with a song that I felt best captured to the idea of "being forgotten." The track that particularly called out to me—and I hesitate to mention it—was "Carissa" by Sun Kil Moon (Mark Kozelek). On the track, he sings of his second cousin Carissa who died in an improbable housefire. She was a regular blue-collar individual living in the midwest, and Mark barely knew her. And yet, despite how menial her life seemingly was, he wanted to impress meaning upon her life, long passed her death, with this song. I find this most beautiful and admirable. After including this song in my book (paired with these two photos), it came to light that Kozelek is a fucking creep and an abuser. I almost expunged the track from my zine, but then the final product would have been unauthentic and merely reactionary to what had happened. Though I have since removed his music from my life, I cannot deny the impact this song had on me. I would probably point to the image of shoes hanging from the telephone wire as my favorite. It's a bit cliche, but I love how the shoes are still emphasized even when crowded by the bushy textures beneath.

ADM: What do you think the biggest advancements you made were over the course of the project? in terms of sequencing, and also shooting?

KJK: As someone who studied journalism in college, I once held to this idea that I MUST be clear as possible for the sake of my audience. Heck, this level of transparency is and should be applied for a lot of photojournalistic work because vagueness is a sign of an untrustworthy author. But with this project, especially regarding the sequencing, I had to reorient my learned approach to create something more personal and trusting of my audience, instead. I've always feared being misunderstood and not being clear, yet the way I've sequenced and even shot the photos for this zine was a way for me to give that fear up. So I'd say the most significant advancement I experienced through this project was the willingness to trust my audience and trust that the photos would convey more words than I could.

ADM: What was your collaborative process like? Prior to the interview you'd mentioned working with Max Heilman and Brooks Ginnan.

KJK: This project is much more than the zine itself. In fact, I paired it with a split single—two original songs. One track titled "Stream Of Silhouettes" is a super atmospheric piece of post-rock, written and performed by Maxwell Heilman and his band Anhelar. The other is a raw, emotively lo-fi cut titled "The Devil Inside of Me," written and performed by Brooks Ginnan. Aside from being a musician, Brooks also happens to be an up-and-coming model featured in films, music videos, and even in Vogue Italia. Though the songs are two entirely different worlds—one brooding, layered, and room-filling and the other stripped-down, haunting, and intimate—they share the same desperate spirit that yearns through affliction. I've known both Brooks and Max for six years. Because I've stayed connected with them longer than any other friends, they are sort of this antithesis to the idea of being forgotten. They represent laughter, love, and long-lasting memories—things that push back against the danger of being forgotten. Because of this friendship, I had to include them within this project. To best capture the zine's essence, I sent PDF copies to the two of them, and they provided me music they felt best reflected what they viewed. "Songs About Being Forgotten" is the fruit of this collaboration.

ADM: Was there a specific turning point that pushed you to print the zine up and put it out there, publicly?

I think like many people who have created and released some artwork lately, the pandemic really pushed me to buckle down and say hey," let's get this done finally." If there ever was a time to release something into the world, now was the time. It was an opportunity to take what has been a disadvantageous moment in history for everyone, make something beautiful out of it, and collaborate with other brilliant minds. No, I wouldn't call this my "COVID Zine/book," as this photo project has been in the making for almost two years. However, I'm sure we will be seeing a saturation of COVID-related projects from photographers within the next year, haha.

ADM: You've talked about musical influences (though feel free to add more if you'd like) but are there any other visual or photographic influences on the zine?

KJK: Studying journalism in college, I took a few photojournalism courses. The professor who taught all of them wanted us, students, to learn from the greats, sequentially. I loved this approach because it allowed our photographically naive eyes to appreciate the trailblazers of street photography. That said, one of my earliest inspirations was Elliot Erwitt. People point to him and notice the humor and irony in his work (which I always try to draw from), but he inspires me because his pictures are emotion(s) rather than reflective of emotion(s). (Which in fact, he is quoted saying, "I want pictures that are emotion.") I picked the photos I did for this zine for the same reason—I wanted to curate images that are what they feel like. I can also pinpoint three current favorites of mine—some more known than others. As of recent, Charalampos Kydonakis, aka Dirty Harry, is the first that comes to mind. His photos literally jump at you with an uncanny energy. He has an unparalleled ability to capture the oddities of life in all of its mundanity, so beautifully. His work is so surreal and is so incredibly impressive because of it. The second photographer is Dylan Hausthor. Though his photos are clearly tethered to a specific place that my own photography is not familiar with, his work has a spiritual and mythical quality that I aspire to channel with my own (though my attempts do not hold a flame to the magic Dylan captures). His use of light is also unlike anything I've seen from another photographer, especially when illuminating the organic textures a place [like] Maine lends itself to. There are many more photographers and their work I enjoy right now, and I'd love to mention them all.

ADM: What advice do you have for someone taking a pre-existing project (like the one you made in class) and refining it or repurposing it like you did (ie turning it into a collaboration, and a multimedia project)?

KJK: My advice to someone who wants to take a pre-existing project and refining it/repurposing it, is to simply be honest with yourself. I think one of the most horrible yet beautiful things about creating art is looking back at the things you DID. Almost always, for me at least, I writhe in disgust over photos I took even as early as three months ago. But being able to look at your older material and critique it with honesty will allow you to tap into what you truly want to create. For this project, I carried over about half the material from the very first version because I hated everything else in it—though I thought it was the best damn thing when I first put the zine together, haha. But my advice is best served as a double-edged sword. I think that though one needs to be honest with themself, they also need to trust their work and build up the courage to publish that zine, book, series of prints, or whatever they are working on. There comes a point where if you keep waiting, you'll never be satisfied with what you create. Thankfully, I just missed that exit and was able to just say, "Fuck it." For me, that point came with the desire to bring in people I love and cherish into the fold to make it a gratifying experience.

ADM: From Stefan Byrom: Which photographers/artists out there do you admire other than the more well known ones?

KJK: I want to mention Justin Yun. Though he happens to be one of my best friends, I, along with many others in the photo community, would agree he possesses a rare talent for his age. Unfortunately, he tends to keep to himself and remains reserved when putting his work out there. There are countless photographers out there who try to explore the concept of dreams and memories. But no one is as in-touch with these ideas and how to artfully reflect them than Justin. The way he can tap into these dreams and memories has helped inform my ability to go into my own subconscious to take photos that, again, "are emotion."

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? - you can answer it yourself if you'd like.

KJK: Outside of other photographers and photobooks, where do you find inspiration for your own photography?

ADM: Thanks again for doing the interview! Any parting words or advice? Where can we pick up a copy of the zine?

KJK: Bring your camera with you at ALL times. If you don't like carrying one around, get a point-and-shoot for casual outings and errands. Support your photography friends. Love one another as yourself; you'll be a lot happier than you could be, I promise. Always be fighting injustice in the world. No matter how small or big the gesture—it adds up—not toward points, but a better world around for those who are disadvantaged. Listen to new music—always. The world needs escaping sometimes, and music is the perfect way to flee.

If you find yourself interested, you can purchase my zine at kylekohner.com/shop and can check out more of my work there as well.

Los Ojos De Muerte: Erwin Recinos

May 31, 2020 in interview

Los Ojos De Muerte: Erwin Recinos

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those not familiar with you or your work, could you introduce yourself and give a quick overview of your work?

Erwin Recinos (ER): My name is Erwin Recinos and I’m a photographer from the city of Los Angeles. For the last ten years my film photography work has revolved around my perspective of the city I live in. I also work with the website LATACO.com and that has also played a big role in my photography work. The film work I produce is a photo album of my life as a son, a father and photographer.

ADM: You've (as of starting this interview) just released "Exposed" which is a compilation of photos shot on Medium format film. What was the impetus to put together and release the zine?

ER: Actually this zine was produced back in 2018. With the Rona & quarantine it’s given me some time to promote my work. The thinking behind making this zine was opportunity to produce a zine for free. I was approached by some folks at Pow!Wow! Mural festival & PaperCutLounge to be apart of a zine release party for the week long event. I was given specs for printed zine and I produced my layouts. Looking at my catalog of photos I had there were produced that year with a Mamiya C330. I show you snippets of life that I capture in and around this vast metropolitan.

ADM: Oh, rad, I've noticed you have a really impressive, and high output of zines - or at least I swear in the last week or two you've promoted a couple other ones in addition to these two. You mention a bit later that you have different goals for different zines, but is there a connecting thread?

ER: The variety of work is the goal. To not have the work feel boxed in or stagnant with a genre or style. The work has to progress and move and grow as I will. My interest and goals are very different from when I started 20 years ago to 3 years ago.

ADM: You're also about to put out a collaborative zine with SER@LA? What's the zine about, and how did you decide to collaborate?

ER: Seratla and I have been collaborating for a number of years now. It was just a matter of time to put it in print form. The photos from this zine are dated back from his beginnings in 2012-2013. Seratla was paste & sticker campaign with a great logo and theme. I was privi to document his mural painting process. All photos were captured with a digital camera. Color was the only option for displaying and capturing his work. That was key through out the process. I would also create videos for some of the mural I documented.

ADM: Oh that's really interesting - did you learn anything new while making a zine for that campaign - also did you find the video-making process influenced the photos you took?

ER: That zine was a learning tool for a lot of projects that proceeded after it. It made me focus and work thru the process and not just rush thru another project. Learning more with printing and shooting and editing video. This in no way narrow my scope but enhance my awareness of slowing down the process and seeing everything thru the end.

ADM: From the base description both zines seem very different - Exposed being all black and white, where the collaborative zine is all color - that's a fairly big stretch in working styles - did you plan to put out two separate zines from the outset?

ER: Of course. Zines have a life of their own. They can be themed zines with volumes of printed editions. Zines can also be short lived bangers with the right paper and content. The work for both zines i made had time to breath from when they were first captured. As a creative you know when the work you are curating is ready to be presented.

Here is an example of my last two zines I produced last year. Both were the same in color but totally different content. One was about graffiti and the other about wrestling. The decision of the color and execution were already decided. Riso printed was the way to go. I talked with Cynthia Navarro of Tiny Splendor in Echo Park, Ca. She gave tips and helped make suggestions on the final printed zines.

ADM: Riso is really awesome stuff - and the previews of that wrestling zine look really great on your website - how did you get into that project - and more generally how do you find your journalism work with LATACO and otherwise contributes to your photography or informs it?

ER: The zine is titled One year of Bar Wrestling and it was my perspective of this niche wrestling scene that popped up in Baldwin Park, California just 16 miles east of downtown LA. A friend of mine, Dennis bought me a ticket to check it out. That started late 2017 and is still going. Attended a show just before the quarantine in March. As everything is theses days it hit social media and nuked the fridge with a spot on Macaulay Culkin when he appeared on Ellen. Great move for them. I'm just glad I was there when I could see it happen or at least take fruit.

All photos were taken with various point n' shoots. Hard to hold an SLR or DSLR with a beer in hand and craziness going around. It made the experiencing of capturing it more fun with a up close and personal feel in the photos.

In 2010 I started with LATACO as an event photographer and documenting my perspective of Los Angeles. From art shows, graffiti, pop-up events and various music concerts. The scene in front of my camera always transitioned that it helped me grow as a photographer. In the last two years LATACO has taken on a role of trusted local grass roots news organization. The eye of documentarian is now the next evolution and it is shifting my work. Another style that is evolving and it’s great to see.

*Here is my author’s page on the website if you'd like to see the work I've done in the last 10 years.

https://www.lataco.com/author/erwin/

ADM: You're a dyed in the wool Angeleno - what do you look for when you're out in the city shooting, if you wouldn't mind extrapolating?

ER: If on assignment for the TACO I have time, place and photo goals that need to be executed. Also, my interest of local sports, art and events with family will take me anywhere in the city. A camera is always with me so my everyday life living in this city is what I believe I'm really capturing.

ADM: In terms of getting out into a city or a culture - like you do with Los Angeles, or working with LA TACO, or getting into Bar Wrestling - what advice would you give to someone looking to capture that or something like that - both as a personal project and a professional one?

ER: Access, work ethic and luck are really the foundations I use when working on personal & professional projects. Knowing the right people and networking to me is still a thing which gives me access to create personal projects or events to get that professional gig. I believe I've put in the work and met enough of the right people to keep growing as a photographer and a person.

ADM: From Adrian Otero Vila: If you could go back in time and stand next to a photographer when they were making an image, which one would it be?

ER: There are three photographers I'd like to do this with: Mike Miller and his famed photo of Tupac Shakur. Jonathan Mannion and his photo of Notorious BIG when he released his first album. Estevan Oriol and his photo of Dennis Hopper.

ADM: What's one question you have for the next photographer? You can answer it yourself if you'd like.

ER: What is the most important aspect of photography that you have applied to your daily life?

ADM: Where can we find your work and purchase your zines? Any other parting words?

ER: My printed zine work is available via losojos.bigcartel.com. Support people who support you. Your local zine community will thank you.

Hi, If you’ve read this far, thanks for reading the interview. This is usually the part where we stump for donations to keep the website up. This week - in light of the riots, we’d like to encourage you to donate to a cause related to helping out. This whole text block is a link to a better link tree.

Thanks,

The Management.

"You, A Great River That Never Runs Dry" or "The Stranger" : J. Han

May 17, 2020 in interview

"You, A Great River That Never Runs Dry" or "The Stranger" : J. Han (@all_gods_creatures_have_knives)

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar with you or your work, could you please introduce yourself? and give a brief overview of your work?

James Han (JH): My name is James Han and I live and work in Portland, Oregon. I started making color film photos in 2016 and in 2017 I attended a black and white darkroom class at the now defunct Newspace in Portland, Oregon. Since then I have been hooked. I love making black and white portraits of people, mostly strangers, where ever I go.

ADM: You just put out "You, A Great River That Never Runs Dry" or "The Stranger" which is a set of 5x7 darkroom prints that you've assembled into a book. What inspired you to make a book of your printed work? Is there a central thread that connects the photos contained in it?It seems as though books are the ideal medium for showing photographic bodies of work, rather than a website or Instagram. I enjoy the tactile experience of flipping through a book of photographs rather than scrolling through a website. Though scrolling through Blake Andrews' Tumblr account from beginning to end in one sitting did something to my brain. The central thread that connects the photos in this book is that every person (except one) was a stranger the first time I approached them.

ADM: What challenges did you have assembling your work, and printing it? Did the darkroom process inspire or shape the book heavily?

JH: Assembling the book requires a lot of time and effort; the time and effort it takes to print each page in the darkroom, editing the images and hand binding them together. It is a labor of love. Yes, the darkroom process inspired and shaped the book heavily. The darkroom process allows me to build the book from beginning to end. I do not need to pay a printer to print the books or have to live with a quality of print that leaves me less than satisfied. Some research was done and the quality of printing I was looking for was cost prohibitive or a large quantity of books would need to be ordered to bring the cost per book down. The end result of the darkroom print also shaped this book; once the printing was complete there was an additional edit and 5 photos were cut because the print quality did not match the others. I also enjoy the feeling of holding and flipping through a stack of 5x7 prints more so than copy print paper. The darkroom prints are heavy and thick and it feels like the photos and book have weight and substance.

ADM: The book seems to be made primarily, or entirely of portraits that are fairly intimate - what was your process like for getting your subjects to pose for you, and was there anything specific you had in mind while making the portraits?

JH: The intent at the beginning was an exercise in moving into the fear of people that was imprinted at such an early age. Each time there was movement into the fear and existence within it rather than remaining outside of it, the less power it held over me. It has been a very enjoyable and challenging process; one that has forced me outside of my tiny perception of the world and into a slightly larger one. At the beginning of the process I would approach just about everyone whereas now I am a little more selective as far as who I will approach. There are some triggers, but now there seems to be some energetic attraction that draws me to some folks. Some people are leery of me and the camera but once we get to talking most people will open up and allow me into their space to make a portrait of them. I've been called names and some people have yelled at me as if I had committed some great crime or insult. To this day, I am continually amazed at the fact that people will readily say 'yes' to having their portraits made by a complete stranger. There was nothing specific I had, or have, in mind while making the portraits, I would shoot without much thought or without some goal in mind.

ADM: Did you find or have any particularly big or moving experiences or conversations while finding and working with strangers? If so would you mind sharing?

JH: No, nothing comes to mind. Though one time this person thought I snapped a photo of him and he started yelling at me to delete the photo. I yelled back to him and told him I had not taken a photo of him. He started coming at me from across the street still yelling. Instinctively, I started towards him and in my mind I wondered why am I doing this and what is going to happen next. He then jumped up and bumped his chest against mine. Afterwards, and without thought, my left hand drops down to my side and the next thing I know I’ve got his leg in my hand and he’s hopping on his left leg. I then start to move him so that he is hopping backwards and soon he fell to the ground. I told him I was done. He jumped up and pulled out three or four knives and he threw each one to the ground, one by one and said “let’s fight for fun, no knives.” I responded “no” and walked away. Later on that day my buddy and I circled back around into that part of downtown and I heard “hey come here”. It’s the same guy and I could hear that there was no anger or malice in his tone so I went over and he thanked me. I asked him for what reason. He told me because I had held back and that I could have beaten him up and hurt him. Ever since then we have been friendly towards one another whenever we see each other.

ADM: The book, and by extension, the rest of your feed is in black and white, have you always worked in BNW, and if so is there a reason that you gravitated to BNW? if so how did you get there?

JH: No. When I started shooting photos in 2016 I did not appreciate the beauty of black and white photography and started with color film. In 2017 I attended a black and white darkroom class at the now defunct Newspace in Portland, OR and have been shooting black and white since then. I love the fact that I can roll my own film, expose the film, process the film in the kitchen and make black and white photographs in a darkroom.

ADM: In terms of influence, you mention Blake Andrews - but was there anything or anyone else that you found influential at the time - either as an active or passive influence. You also speak about people being attracted - bruce gilden actually talks about a similar phenomena - can you expound on your experience with that?

JH: Lee Friedlander, Garry Winogrand, Diane Arbus, Rosalind Fox Solomon, Mary Ellen Mark, Henri Cartier-Bresson (I spent so many hours looking at his portraits), Eugene Richards, Duane Michals and the list goes on. It seems to be a completely instinctual and an unconscious process. It is also a process of letting go of any preconceived ideas and wants and letting it all just happen. Then effort seems to disappears and there is just this doing and the doing leads to meeting people without consciously looking for something or someone specific.

ADM: What advice would you give to, or do you have for someone who might be new to street portraits, or approaching strangers, and attempting to make a portrait of them?

JH: Keep your heart as open as possible.

ADM: From Chris San Nicolas: What non-photographic thing do you find most enriches your photography/life?

JH: Commuting to and from work by foot and mass transit.

ADM: What's one question you have for the next photographer? you can answer your own question if you'd like.

JH: If you practice black and white film photography and use a darkroom to print photos, which photographer's (alive or dead) darkroom would you like to have access to and be able to watch work in their workspace?

ADM: Where can people find more of your work, and purchase either prints or copies of your book from you?

JH: Instagram. Please DM me if there is any interest in purchasing a print or a book.

PARADISE: Sam Lloyd

April 26, 2020 in interview

PARADISE: Sam Lloyd

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar with you, can you introduce yourself, and your work?

Sam Lloyd (SL): My name is Sam, I'm a tattooer and student of photography in Portsmouth. I shoot both 35 and medium format.

ADM: What's the guiding concept behind Paradise?

SL: The fundamental concept behind Paradise is memory. It's a visual response to growing up in a pretty mundane suburb, as I'm sure many of us did.

ADM: Did you end up finding out anything about your childhood, or the suburban lifestyle through the process of making your zine? How does memory or nostalgia play into what you photographed vs. what you thought you would photograph at the outset of the project?

SL: So the walk is from my Mums house to my friend Gregs house, from the ages of 11-17 this was the longest walk me and friends would have to make at that time. Now it doesn't seem such a tall order, but that's why I chose this route.

On one of my walks photographing for the zine I had Greg with me and we and we discussed in great length what had changed and what remained, who from the past lived where and other places we would frequent as kids. Looking back over the photos in the zine it definitely didn't occur to me (and my memory) just how mundane the backdrop to my childhood was. I guess if you're having a good time with your friends you could be anywhere. Saying that, I did come across a lot of odd and misplaced things!

The main element of memory/nostalgia in the zine is the sequence of the walk. I like that the relevance of it all is only really known to me. I must admit when I came on to this idea I was pretty set on how I would conduct it, but I haven't been back there in a few years so I had no preconceptions on what I would shoot and how.

ADM: What got you into the zine or book format?

SL: I'm an avid collector of books and previously made a DIY zine showcasing my creative peers. When they announced the "quarantine" or what ever I just got busy and finalised the project, I thought it might be nice to share something with my friends while they're stuck inside.

ADM: Interesting - what would you say your favorite or most influential books have been (photographic or otherwise), and why?

SL: 10 years ago or so I was really into collecting the free copies of Vice magazine that you'd find in selected stores, they were pretty eye opening as to what kinds of photography went to print and who was out there. It was obviously unlike anything I had been shown at A level in college. As for favourite books, that's tough, but i'd have to say Roger Ballen. I have a few of his now and I just love how he incorporates illustration, sculpture, portraiture and chaos!

ADM: What was the shooting and image selection process like for Paradise?

SL: I took out a Hasselblad with trusty HP5 an retraced a walk I commonly made as child, I needed to structure my ideas and this seemed like a fitting ritual to follow for my project. The images you find on full bleed in the zine are from a roll I put through a Holga circa 2008/9, I couldn't believe my luck when I came across the negatives and it was a really nice touch to the sequence.

ADM: Going from Holga to Hasselblad is quite a stretch - how do you think working with toy cameras influenced your image-making, and can you speak a little more on how contrasting the holga images from over ten years ago played into the zine? I find it interesting because a lot of the holga images center on your friends rather than the topographics you lived in.

SL: That does sound like a stretch put like that! I've never been too precious about what camera/film combo i'm using, I was an avid car boot sale raider as a kid and bought anything I found that wasn't already home. I strongly believe anyone can make a thoughtful image with any camera. I've recently come across a few people shooting Holga still with amazing result!

The Holga images I came across clearing out my spare room and I'm glad I did. My initial idea was to respond to a rather large instax collection I have amounted from that same period of time. I wanted the reader to encounter them along this this walk I had put together as they were flash backs. I wasn't really happy with how the instax sat with my photographs, so when I found the negs in black and white and square format I really lucked out, not to mention they also captured Greg and his brother whom lived at the end of my walk.

I chose only the photos from the roll that featured people so they had some kind of continuity on their own.

ADM: Also re: the layout - what prompted you to set it up so that the modern images are plainly laid out, with plenty of buffer against the holga images which are full bleed? is there a deeper significance to that?

SL: I wanted it to be obvious and quite abrupt that you are encountering a "flash back" or something from the past to break up the sequence a bit, so the full bleed was to enhance that abrasion and difference. I left a lot of white space and one image to a spread to encourage the reader to take their time with each image, like a slow walk or something.

ADM: What did you learn, putting the Paradise zine together - is there anything you'd do differently on the next zine?

SL: I think I had it pretty easy with this particular project due to nature of the sequence being a walk, but it was a learning curve curating a single body of work opposed to my previous zines which were collaborative!

In regards to doing things differently in the future, I would like to play with different layouts and sequences. Not because I'm unhappy with anything in Paradise, but it's nice to have a new challenge!

ADM: When you talk about growing up in the suburbs - is there a particular memory that you're trying to communicate to the reader - or like a specific piece of nostalgia that might escape the viewer?

SL: I honestly don't have an agenda with this. It's very much "my truth" and more of a shared experience with the reader. I guess it just is what it is to some extent, to some it might be relatable and others a window into another way of life.

ADM: From Sadie Rose Bailey - what other creative outlets do you pursue? And what does it bring you that photography doesn’t?

With tattooing i'm constantly drawing drawing, so in many ways photography is my outlet from that. I'm currently painting a lot of flash and have been playing with cyanotype printing. I'm quite lucky to have a close friend who enjoys artsy stuff too, so we're always playing with new mediums, chasing the next high!

ADM: What question do you have for the next photographer? You can answer it yourself if you'd like.

SL: I think you should carry that last question over, is that allowed? I'd be interested to know what other stuff camera nerds were into!

ADM: Sure, I can let that question ride! Where can we see your more of your work, and order copies of Paradise (if there are any left?)

SL: So my photography is at @fortyeighteighteen on Instagram, I have not deemed myself worthy of website just yet. Copies of the zine are on acidbathvampire.bigcartel.com where you pick up some of my paintings and prints also. I will be ordering another batch of zines this weeks, I had no idea people would actually buy them!

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Game Trails: Jay Neely

March 28, 2020 in interview

Game Trails: Jay Neely

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Can you introduce yourself and describe your photographic work?

Jay Neely (JN): My name is Jay Neely and I'm a photographer and art director based out of Leavenworth, Washington. I’ve been shooting photos and making books for about 10 years now. My work has largely been inspired by my environment and tends to evolve with my interests and curiosity. Because of this, my work has ranged from conceptual still lives to pseudo documentary and everything in between. That said, I’m primarily project, or concept driven... if I think an idea could make for a series, or a book, I usually pursue it even if it doesn’t fit in the realm of things I’ve done in the past.

ADM: In broad strokes, what is landscape photography to you?

JN: For me, I think landscape photography is primarily about environment and context. A good landscape is the stage for something else that’s happening. Photographs by nature are still representations of a place, or a moment and I think for me, great photographs (in general) imply movement, conversation, or interaction in a way. When I think about landscape photographs that have moved me... the compositional elements of course are there, but I’m really more interested in how the image employs my imagination to see something else that is taking place in that space. Todd Hido talks about this in regard to his houses at night. He talks about how his work really isn’t about a house on a street corner, it’s about what’s taking place behind the glowing windows... the things you can’t see. I think that same idea resonates with me about good landscapes.

ADM: What was the inspiration to put together Game Trails?

JN: A couple of years ago, I started hunting big game in an attempt to be more self sufficient and to build a closer relationship with my food. It has proven to be one of the most important, difficult and meaningful journey’s I’ve embarked on. That said, the way that I interact with the natural world has changed pretty dramatically since I started hunting. Everything is important... every footprint, broken twig, flower, bush etc... anything can be a clue and whether I’m hunting, or not, I find my self paying a lot more attention.

One of the most immediate signs that game is in the area is a series of game trails. These game trails connect these animals to their primary needs - bedding areas, food sources and water. They can switchback up a hillside with impressive efficiency and most often they’re frequented by a myriad of different animals. This series is really a topographic study of these systems. Aesthetically and by design, the similarities between game trails and our own transportation pathways are pretty uncanny. They tell similar stories and they serve a similar purpose and I think this sort of Human / Nature connection is really what I’m most interested in.

ADM: While the photos in Game Trails do document and focus on the titular Trails, the photos have a very textural quality -- was that intentional?

JN: Absolutely, I think the thing that was initially striking to me about game trails was their imprint on the landscape. They cut up the mountains in a super interesting way ... particularly as the mid-day sun hits the hillside - they almost glow in the sagebrush. I feel like when I’m working with subjects that fall into the mundane, it’s important to me to try to photographically point out the thing that caught my eye.

ADM: It's interesting that you bring up natural topography vs. humanity - that's not something I see dealt with very often - did you find that the game trails were often interfered with by humans?

JN: Yes and no... Most of the places that I was hunting were far enough off the beaten path that I wasn’t running into many boot prints. In areas with established man-made trail systems, you’ll definitely find an intersection between the two, which can be quite interesting. In a lot of ways, animal motivations are very similar to that of humans, so the trail systems can lead you to similar places. Game animals find security in elevation, and they require a clear path between food and water which often times mirror the points of interest on common hiking trails. In the wilderness, a person can certainly use game trails to their advantage. If you’re far from a trailhead and you need to get to the top of a mountain, or find a water source, a well trafficked game trail can be a good place to start.

ADM: The choice to shoot the project in black and white is an interesting one, which succeeds in the book. How did you settle on black and white for your images?

JN: When it comes to my personal projects, black and white is really the only way that I’ve ever worked. I was exclusively a black and white film photographer in art school and printing really taught me the depth of a black and white image. I keep telling myself that I’m going to do a color project, but I still have so much to learn in black and white that I feel like I’ll be on this path for a while longer. Aside from that, when I was putting this book together, I was thinking a lot about Robert Adam’s, Along Some Rivers. Adam’s book is an elegant and meditative series of black and white landscapes taken in the Pacific Northwest. The images really feel less about the things in the frame and more about the feeling of being in that place. I think that idea really struck me and a sentiment that I tried to capture in my images. So much of hunting is about being in places that people are not and I think that solace and immersion into the landscape brings about an attentive calmness that I felt was communicated best in black and white.

ADM: What was the shooting and editing process like for Game Trails? did you make your images as you hunted, or did you make dedicated trips to photograph the trails separate from your hunts?

JN: It was a little bit of both, but most of these images were taken while I was hunting. Particularly during the early season, there is a tremendous amount of down time during the middle of the day when the animals are bedded down. Usually you find yourself traveling from one ridge to another ridge, or perched patiently on the side of a hill waiting for the forest to come alive again. It’s a beautiful time to be in the woods and it proved to be a perfect time for me to make these images.

ADM: I agree that it's important to work in series, as well as to make photographs where the focus is about what's not seen - do you have any advice or insight into how to impart that sense of "hidden" narrative?

JN: I believe that narrative can come before, or after a photograph is taken and I think it’s really about defining process. I think my biggest piece of advice would be to first study the work that has been done before. Look at books, read interviews with photographers, artists, filmmakers... Really get an understanding of what you’re attracted to (aesthetically and conceptually) and why. Learn about a variety of processes and take the parts that work and build a way of working that keeps you working. From there, it’s about developing and following your photographic instincts.

For me, I’ve learned that my best work happens when my intentions are loose to begin with. Sometimes I find a thing that is conceptually and visually interesting and I can immediately find a narrative and the book basically unfolds in my head... this is ideal and rarely happens. That said, most of the time, I’ll photograph something, or a series of things that are aesthetically compelling and then from there, I’ll research the subject and let the narrative emerge... it’s sort of a process of discovery... and it’s where a lot of my best work has come from.

ADM: Where can people see your work, and purchase Game Trails, and other books of yours?

JN: You can find my work at www.jaythomasneely.com and on instagram @jaythomasneely

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SMALL ABYSS: Chris San Nicolas

March 22, 2020 in interview

SMALL ABYSS: Chris San Nicolas

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar with you or your work, can you introduce yourself and give an overview?

Chris San Nicolas (CSN): Hello, I'm Chris. I'm 26 years old, I live in Long Beach, CA, and I've been practicing photography for about 4 years. I started off bringing disposable cameras on trips and eventually grabbed my own 35mm camera, and it's been a steady and constant progression since then. I shoot a mix of street photography, landscape, and occasionally portraits. I don't shoot with an end goal or a specific photo in mind, I take photos as I go about living my life. I see all of the work as autobiographical in nature - with an overarching desire to represent life honestly, as I see it.

ADM: What was the impetus to put together and publish Small Abyss - also will it be a series - there is a "1" on the spine? A bit of an aside - I thought it was really cool how you used the frame marker 1 for that.

CSN: I made a small zine a year into my start with photography and wanted to make another that was more representative of the work I've been making the past 3 years. Since it spanned a longer period of time and I wanted it to be more complex - physically and conceptually - I decided on a small book. In actuality I've been wanting to make a book for a long time, but around November of 2019 I finally thought up a concept that I believed served as an appropriate and interesting vehicle for this period of work.

I don't intend Small Abyss itself to be a series, but the next book/large zine project will have a frame marker for 2 on it - so more of a numbering system for main projects. Thanks, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't partially get the idea from the cover of that Forte Collab Zine you curated a while back.

ADM: I know that the project, while definitely focused, and the photos are well chosen for it - is compiled from photos taken over the last three years - what was the selection process like? Did you find yourself taking more from a specific time period, or end up using more recent photos over older ones?

CSN: The project developed backwards in a way, with the title coming first and being the impetus for the whole project. I knew I wanted to make a large-ish cumulative project but a subject or theme didn't jump out at me just by looking through my photo archives, nor did a project based on one subject or type of photograph particularly interest me. When I was taking the first steps into the project (still unnamed) I was thinking a lot about how individuals perceive reality - how no one's personal experience can perfectly match up with another's, even if they experience the same events. That thought thread led to the title Small Abyss which (though it has many meanings) is a rebuttal to the line "No man is an island" from John Donne's Devotions Upon Emergent Occassions.

I let those competing ideas inform my selections as I looked through all the b&w work I've made since 2016. Since the theme was an exploration of an idea rather than a physical object or space or specific story, I was able to be creative in what photos I chose. I also wanted the interplay between the photos to be an integral part of the project, so I (painstakingly) cut a few of my favorite photographs I've made from the project because it didn't fit the theme or fit well with the photos in the project that did. I ended up choosing more recent photos than older but that's mostly because I took more pictures in 2019 than any other year. I printed ~200 photos in 4"x6" and taped them to my wall and let the layout create itself in a way. I knew I wanted the majority of the spreads to have one photo on the left and one on the right and function as pairs - one of the ways the photos interplay with each other. I also realized halfway through that I wanted there to be a progression that made sense with how the project exists as a book (which made me go back and change a lot of the pairings). I used this framework to guide the actual layout. It was a really iterative and organic process and though it was really fun, it was also frustrating and took a long time.

ADM: In response to how you Assembled the zine: Did you hand print all the 4x6 prints? Also how did you come up with that process of putting the photos on the wall, and constructing your pairs from there - and how do you think that shaped your process rather than doing the process via sorting on a computer, or straight into a layout program?

CSN: No I used CVS for convenience and cost. I wasn't concerned with quality for these prints because they were more an intermediate form of the project. I've always been a fan of tactile processes, so I'm not sure that I can pinpoint a moment where I thought of using a wall. I think it's always made sense and been an aspiration for as long as I wanted to make a book of photographs. The final product was majorly influenced by this process. I had this birds-eye view of the whole project where every loose connection or interesting interplay would draw my eye like the movements of small critters in a large grassy field. When I saw these connections, I could immediately move the photos next to each other, replace one of them with another that works but in a different way, compare them to other pairings and so on with a speed and physicality that I don't know how to reproduce with a digital process. Screens are only so big and there's a trade-off between scope (how many elements you can see at at once) and detail (how clearly you can see each element) which are largely eliminated if you have a wall, prints, and mobility. Maybe I don't know how to use digital tools effectively enough, but I can never experiment as quickly on a computer with the mixing and matching described above and I had the added benefit of seeing the physicality of the photographs. With the goal being a book, this was invaluable. A lot of these frames I had only seen as scans on a screen and I was surprised by how many photographs that I had enjoyed initially, did not hold up when printed.

ADM: The book contains a fairly intricate balance of landscapes (vernacular and traditional) with intimate portraits, and candid glimpses into other lives - how did you strike this balance this, and is there a particular significance to it?

CSN: As I mentioned before, an overarching goal for my photography is to represent life genuinely and I wanted this project to embody all the varied experiences in life. I used the balance of all of these kinds of photos as a way to do that. To reinforce this, I jumped around in scale a lot, for example going immediately from a close up of something tiny to a large sweeping landscape. And though the project doesn't stick to a single type of photo, there's a lot of repetition but also contrast in motifs throughout. A lot of the spreads present two similar things in different ways or two very different things in similar ways - like some kind of oxymoron. This ordered chaos is how I see life and I hope that feeling comes across.

ADM: Was there a particular moment or photo, or even pair of photos - that the overall concept "clicked" into focus for you?

CSN: It wasn't with the photos that the concept clicked. There were two breakthrough points for me. The first was when I wrote the first draft of the poem (or 3 poems depending on how you look at it) in the beginning of the book. I had even used the phrase "No man is an island" in that first draft, which was taken out later.

The second breakthrough was when I was deciding on the overall structure of the book. Initially I wanted the book to be able to be read left to right (normally) as well as outside-in, where you'd start with the inside covers and turn a page on each side in until you reached the middle spread. The idea was for these outside-in "spreads" would work as mirrors or opposites of each other. The main gripe I had was that people don't read books like that and if I'm doing something that weird, it has to reinforce or add to the concept in a meaningful way. I scrapped the idea and played around with a few more related ideas until deciding on one. The final layout has a sense of progression that works with the experience of reading a book and how the photos are presented.

ADM: Going back to the zine being a focused anthology, what would you say your key influences were for it - photographic, or otherwise?

CSN: Presentation-wise, I took a lot of cues from Japanese photography from the 60's and 70's. A Hunter by Daido Moriyama and the Asahi Camera publications come to mind. Both often featured full bleeds on their two page spreads as well as their multi-photo spreads. Another influence was Rap/Hip-Hop which I have only recently started exploring. I've always enjoyed wordplay and turns of phrase. I especially like when someone pivots, talking about a whole new topic based on a double meaning of a single word from the previous line. I wanted the progression of photographs in the book to feel like a series of pivots or turns in phrase maybe even audio samples taken from diverse sources but meshed into the narrative I was trying to create.

ADM: In terms of takeaway, what did you notice about your work, and by extension, about how you and your vision changed over the three year period?

CSN: The biggest takeaway I had was realizing how much of my work had been guided by my subconscious, the same subconscious that attached to the concept of Small Abyss Vs No Man Is An Island. I feel like this idea has always been in the back of my head and after these 3ish years of it quietly guiding my intuition as I made photographs, it finally bubbled to the surface and I had enough work to express it in a satisfactory way. But now that the cat's out of the bag, it's something I feel like I'll always be conscious of and because of that I'm not sure if I'll keep making work like this going forward. This project feels like a bookend, at least for the last few months it has. I haven't been shooting nearly as much once I started making the book and I think it's because I want to tackle a different problem with a different artistic language or medium. I'd say the biggest realization is that I was always working towards something like this and now, at least until I'm no longer burned out on this work, it's time for something new.

ADM: Now that you've wrapped up Small Abyss, what can we look forward to in the future?

CSN: I honestly couldn't say. I'm still taking pictures, just not as frenzied as before. Definitely more photography, probably less exclusive b&w 35mm film work. The project has definitely made me want to do more physical projects. Now that I have the large overarching project done, I've given myself permission, I guess, to do smaller, more niche projects possibly with a more mixed media approach.

ADM: Would you say after this project your working process has changed? if so how, if not why not?

CSN: I'd say it has definitely slowed down. I've been putting a lot of energy into finishing the book and have been shooting less. I hope I'll eventually get back into a groove where I'm shooting at least a roll a week. I think I'll have to start making smaller projects with goals in mind or define more explicit long term projects instead of idly shooting.

ADM: What advice would you give for someone looking to put together a retrospective of their work, especially one covering as much material as yours does?

CSN: Have a concept or theme that you can dig into and also have enough work to fulfill it. Make sure to overview all your work, there might be stuff you forgot about that will work really well. Keep asking yourself questions and don't get married to any one idea.

ADM: Do you have any parting words? Also where can we pick up copies of Small Abyss and see more of your work - I know you do print on demand - both darkroom and inkjet.

CSN: Just stay safe and sane and healthy. Small Abyss will be available on my website www.chrisnicpics.com or through DM via ig at @chrisnicpics. You can also see my work on my website and ig. I do, I'm still figuring it out more consistent print sales but if you follow me on either platform, I'll let you all know on there. Thanks again for doing this interview with me and promoting the project, Andrew. Really appreciate all the stuff you do for the community!

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GAIJIN: The Arevalo Brothers

February 15, 2020 in interview

GAIJIN: The Arevalo Brothers

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Thanks for agreeing to do this interview! for those not familiar with you, could you both briefly introduce yourselves and describe your work together, and as individuals?

Andrew Arevalo: Hello! My name is Andrew Arevalo. I wouldn't label my work as one thing such as "street photography" because I tend to take photos of anything that catches my attention. Lately my work is all Black and White for the simplicity of it and discovery of space within myself and other people. Me and Anthony's work are very separate, even as twin brothers. I have noticed we'll come across the same subject and take completely different photos.

Anthony Arevalo: Hey I'm Anthony, Andrew's twin brother and vice versa. I work full time at Samy's Camera and have taken photos for the past 6 years now. Interest includes cycling, skating, music, anime, and some art which all have gotten tangled in my little journey of photography. Those things can explain themselves when it comes to explaining what kind of photos I have made around them, but I guess it's the stuff when those all are absent that gets trickier to put into words. Lately I have been finding my photos having less and less people... Lately I've been trying to capture the mundane, feelings I don't quite understand, and trying to start a narrative of a lonely landscape in such a dense world. This book in particular though ties in a lot of stuff I enjoy very dearly in a different world from my own. I definitely wouldn't mind making this a yearly habit.

ADM: We're here talking about your upcoming (or recently released) book Gaijin -- can you give me an overview of what the book is about, and what it means to you?

Andrew Arevalo: The overview of our coming book, Gaijin (slang for foreigner/outsider) is just our view on how we romanticized Japan as it has been a dream of ours to visit for a long time now. It's a lot of firsts for me, first time out of the country, first time in Japan, first time doing a book vs a zine, first time planning a solo show (with my brother of course) . It's a milestone in my photography in how work gets produced and how it is received I am so thankful for everyone's support through the whole project.

Anthony Arevalo: Gaijin is a collection of photos by two twin brothers that have shared lots of similar interests. As a close follower of skating, music, art, and track bike culture (vs cycling in general), Japan has been a very sought out place to expand your reach and exposure. Not saying that you go to gain popularity but to gain a understanding and appreciation for what you love. I now see and understand what was once something a wide eyes teenager could only dream of. And I got to do it with, and I don't admit it enough, one of my best friend I could ever ask for, Andrew, my twin brother. Model after what I feel like a travel journal slash Japanese photo book? This book highlights truly one of the best experience I have made in my life so far.

ADM: I've made a few books now, but I've never actually worked with another person directly on the same book. What was the process of working on a collaborative book like? Did you know you were going to end up publishing one book together rather than two separate books or zines?

Andrew Arevalo: The process was somewhat natural, being twins and growing up together we have very similar tastes in pretty much everything to a certain degree. But we had a lot of help getting our creative ideas out onto paper and design. Our friend, Daniel Lurvey, is a graphic designer for a living and wanted something fun to work on outside of work and absolutely nailed the cover design and helped us with a more creative approach for the layout. My partner, Amara Higuera, did some lovely writing for the intro that me and Anthony would never have came up with. Through each process we sat down, gave our thoughts, and all agreed during every step.

Anthony Arevalo: Honestly it was bound to happen. Why wouldn't twins do a collaborative project? I knew even before we got on the plane that I wanted to do a book with Andrew and that all the photos I made would be purely for that reason. Other than that we just took photos like normal and worried about the rest later.

ADM: I have to imagine with two separate photographers you had a pretty massive photo pool to pull from -- you've edited the final set into a really nice, concise pool of photos -- what was the selection and sequencing process like?

Andrew Arevalo: We each narrowed down our own individual photos, each of us shooting about 20 rolls. When we picked our favorites we tried to see how it would layer together and narrowed it more from there. As an outside perspective Daniel arranged the photos and it was all of our ideas to have the table of contents in the back to keep the book simple and less clustered.

Anthony Arevalo: If I remembered right I had at least 200 photos I truly liked out of the 14 rolls of film I shot. I later thin that down to a little less than 100. From there we actually had our friend Daniel layout everything out (that's why everything looks so nice) and he essentially thin it down to what it is now with only a few photos being swapped out. Pretty much we just trusted our friend Daniel and obviously he delivered.

ADM: You both make the statement/observation ( also apparent throughout the book) that despite being twins you both have distinctly different shooting styles -- what do you think informs that? Can you both talk about your influences, shared and otherwise -- and do you find that your hobbies and interests outside photography influence your photography -- if so how?

Andrew Arevalo: I think me and my brother have very similar influences as were always sharing stuff we like with each other. We both have the same hobbies essentially but I really think it just comes down to being individuals and no two photos from two different people can be 100% alike. We're both into skating,cycling, and music and I definitely think they influence my photos outside of those hobbies with different perspectives and learning from taking photos in those separate environments.

Anthony Arevalo: I feel like Andrew's photo definitely have more people in them and mine doesn't always have people in them. Other than that I feel like we share the same theme of trying to photograph emotions. As a young photographer I feel like my influences aren't that mature, meaning most of my influences are just probably just the norm usually. But my main influences at the moment would be Clint Woodside, Robert Adam, Araki Nobuyoshi, Dennis McGrath, William Eggleston, and Alec Soth. Of course most of my interest like music, skating, and cycling inspire me tons in photography and life in general. Photographers in all those aspects, at least in the subcategories I follow, have always been linked back to separating from the norm, rebels. I feel like I would want to follow that path.

ADM: How did you find it different to shoot over in Japan, rather than back here in America?

Andrew Arevalo: We definitely got a bit of a "foreigner pass". I felt like it was "easy" to take street photos in Japan because of the culture of being non confrontational, with that being said it wasn't like I was in everyone's face and invading direct privacy I took photos like I normally do but felt less of a chance for a negative response as I have gotten sometimes before.

Anthony Arevalo: Aside from being completely new Japan was a very comfortable place to photograph once I got comfortable which was probably after our 2nd day? The cultural / language barrier did help but as John Sypal would tell anyone, just wear a smile and you'll be fine photographing on the streets of Japan. I had some people giggle after taking some silly photos or giving me a polite wave. We didn't have too much issues; aside from one time when I popped a flash into a police box and they then stopped us down the street claiming they're doing a random search due to Roppangi having a drug problem at the moment.

ADM: What was the key moment for each of you where you knew "this is something different?" Did you document it in the book?

Andrew Arevalo: I felt it as we arrived at the airport, with immigration and the ads right off the plane. With the people at the train station right outside the airport it feels very clichè to say but it felt like being in another world.

Anthony Arevalo: Honestly I don't think our photos are the most unique in this book. What's different is that usually I feel like most Japan travel books/zines are made by not only people who have gone before, but also have friends (as in probably more than a few?) Before going. This is different ‘cause we're almost completely in the shadow going into this, it's also fully self funded and not being made by a publishing label (no matter how much I joke with Clint about it).

ADM: I noticed you both seem to stick with black and white for most of the book, but there's a good bit of color mixed in -- is this an intentional commentary, or is it in line with both of your regular shooting styles?

Andrew Arevalo: Most of the b&w photos are mine, as that has been my preference for the last couple of years. But with hopes of the Cherry Blossoms blooming (we had just missed the big bloom as we were leaving) I knew I needed at least a couple of rolls of color but looking back at it now the high contrast flash stuff I had gotten with Cherry Blossoms in the background I yet again do not see a NEED for color film anywhere.

Anthony Arevalo: The fact that it's mostly black and white is mostly cause of Andrew. He has been sticking to just black and white film for a little more than a year. I like to mix it up, I usually don't shoot the same film twice in a row and I like to alternate between color and b&w. So by that logic the book is probably 3/4 b&w. I shot 7 rolls of color and 7 of black and white.

ADM: Looking forward, you're both headed back to japan again this year -- will you make another volume of the book? What do you think will be different this time around?

Andrew Arevalo: I don't believe we'll make Gaijin a series but rather produce something else. This time around we are going with a couple of friends from Middle School that will be visiting for the first time and take photos as well. We will be making something less serious and simpler as a group.

Anthony Arevalo: Everyone has been asking if we are going to expand on our book or do another volume since we haven't printed our current one. No we're not going to expand or continue our book Gaijin. Gaijin is meant, at least to me, a one off chapter in our journey of self discovery. What's different this time around is we're going to Japan this time with our childhood friends Yao and Ernesto. While we are planning to make a zine vs a book this time it will definitely be different. It'll be more of a travel log/Journal vs a photo essay of sort that we are currently working on.

ADM: For someone on the fence about taking on a big trip or a project during a big trip like that, that requires them to take a leap of faith, what advice can you give?

Andrew Arevalo: You can't ever produce something unless you take the steps into the process. But for our project it grew naturally. As photographers that are fans of anything printed matter we naturally knew we would take a ton of photos and they would need a home.

Anthony Arevalo: Don't over think it. All I knew I want to do before getting on the plane was I wanted to make a book and that I want to have a show to release it if possible. I bugged so many people about things before I even had anything to show them. The only advice I can give is just shoot. Shoot and figure it out later, everything will form eventually. Give it as much time as you think it needs. The only practical advice I can give is if you have a issue with the sheer amount of stuff you have like I did, try removing things that don't meet a common theme, go through your selection serval times and then after you do don't look at it for a while and come back to it after the honeymoon phase is over.

ADM: When can we expect gaijin to release? What plans do you have for the book -- I know you'd mentioned a gallery show? Where can we buy a copy?

Andrew Arevalo: We have yet to settle on a release date yet. Trying to figure out the best time to drop all of the money on printing and setting a date for the show is what's keeping us back but we are very close to finalizing! It will definitely be this year I hope. The plan is to have the show as a release party and sell the books there, with a dvd of b side moments on Super 8 by Anthony and some other unique gifts to go with the book. If we happen to have any left overs after the show we will sell them through Instagram to anyone interested and a few through These Days where we will hopefully have the show but it will be a somewhat limited run.

Anthony Arevalo: Hopefully we'll have plans for a show end of February if somehow possible, if not it will be after March. I want the book to release at the time of said show. Obviously you can buy a copy at the show, if not we're hoping to leave a few at These Days in downtown for them to sale. Other than that you'll just have to ask us directly to get one. We're assuming mostly friends will be purchasing copies of our books so thank you in advance for your interest. Books are going to be bundled with a DVD of super8 footage I took on the trip and hopefully we'll be able to included a couple of postcards as well. Once again thank you to Andrew for having us!!!