Hiroshima Legacy Project: David Chao

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those unfamiliar with you, can you introduce yourself, and talk a little bit about your photowork and practice outside Hiroshima Road Trip and Instagram?

David Chao (DC): A little bit about me, I am David Chao and I am a half Japanese and half Chinese American born and raised between San Francisco and Kobe, Japan.

I studied Product Design in college, and photography became a big passion of mine on the side. I started off learning in the school darkroom in an intro photography class, and then spent 2 years serving as a lab assistant and teaching other students. Teaching others skills or knowledge I have is something I enjoy quite fondly, and today I still serve as an adjunct lecturer at Stanford in Design Research, essentially a class focused on how to do ethnographic design research.

I used to shoot digitally on the side quite a bit, but my love for photography emerged in 2016 when I took my first film photography class. Something about the physical tangibility of using chemicals and making prints with my hands turned me into a lover of film. I currently shoot 35mm, medium, and large format. For me each film type serves a different purpose, and I don’t particularly like one over the other. I feel I am still exploring all the different ways film and cameras can be used to capture what I love.

My projects, or more serious projects, have all revolved around shooting in Japan. For me the biggest aspect is being both an insider and outsider gives me a unique perspective. I spent years growing up culturally between Japan and the US, and so I know enough about the inner thinking and culture to recognize certain behaviors. But at the same time, I am very much American, and that gives me foresight into being able to view scenes or actions taken from an outsider’s perspective. This to me has made photography projects in Japan as one’s that feel like the most genuine.

I tend not to post my most important or favorite work on Instagram. The reason being is Instagram was always just a way for me to find like minded people who enjoyed photography, not as a medium to share it. Over time I have loved the community of people I have met.

ADM: What was the inspiration for the project?

DC: After graduating from Stanford University in 2018 with a degree in Engineering -Product Design, I set out to capture a project I titled the “Hiroshima Legacy Project”. Using a 4x5 View Camera the goal of this project was to document the people of smaller towns all around Hiroshima Prefecture. Given the urban migration and the aging population, lots of small towns and even small cities in Hiroshima prefecture are starting to slowly die out.

The inspiration for this project began in the summer of 2017, a day after my sister’s 12th birthday party, my grandmother Toshiko passed away in her home. Toshiko was born to Soichi and Kumayo Morimoto of Hiroshima on September 10, 1930 in Watsonville, California, where she grew up with her six siblings until World War II. In 1942, President Roosevelt issued Executive Order 9066, and the government imprisoned the Morimoto family, including teenaged Toshiko and her siblings, in concentration camps – first in Poston, Arizona, then in Tule Lake, California. After the war, the US government repatriated the Morimoto family to Hiroshima. In her memory, I wanted to create a photographic essay capturing stories and faces of Hiroshima.

Along the way she picked up a hobby of photography and always had a camera with her. One of the reasons I decided to take a film photography class at Stanford was to be able to share some common experiences with her and her passion for art in general. The summer before my senior year of college my grandmother had passed away after fighting illness for many years. Before she had passed, she rounded up lots of old film and gathered all the older film cameras she had collected. While many of them do not work, one of my favorite cameras of all time was a Yashica T4 Super Zoom.

While in the midst of going over my future, finishing up my degree in Engineering - Product Design, and applying for jobs, I began to formulate a year long project following my graduation from Stanford. The first stage of that project was creating a darkroom space/studio to promote the photographic arts. Whether it’s just with family and friends, or eventually something more open to the local SF community, I wanted to create a space in her memory. The second stage is this upcoming project to travel to the rural and countryside communities of Japan and capture them before they completely fade away.

ADM: I've noticed that all of the photos you post on instagram of the Road Trip are numbered of 360. What's the significance of 360?

DC: I shot 10 rolls of provia100f on the road trip casually, so these are really more works from me just having fun with photography.

The real work from the road trip was 4x5 portrait shots, which I have only posted infrequently and rarely actually on Instagram. I can send you that in person, as I think those would be more interesting to post.

ADM: Is the road trip part of or related to a bigger or different body of work you're working on?

DC: I think for me right now the biggest thing is I want to be able to document culture and people in a meaningful way. For me what I like to capture hopefully tells a story, and my goal is to make this a foundation for a bigger project in the future.

For myself the biggest lesson I learned is: I don’t know as much as I thought I did.

One, I want to continue to improve my technique as a photographer. I felt that there were moments where I was limited on how I could capture a scene based off inexperience.

Two, I want to learn how to connect with people better and be more assertive in the field. This is something that I have been getting experience with at work currently. I work at a design research firm and as part of projects we conduct 3 hour long ethnographic style in-home interviews. This is perfect training for being able to guide with the right level of authority, but also dig for information in order to create a great photograph. It’s a little unorthodox, but it is something I am excited to try and translate to other mediums in the future.

ADM: In the past you've posted historic or archival photos that your grandmother took -- I find them really fascinating. How did you get into that, and have you had any favorite images from those archives, and any that you find really interesting, historically?

DC: When my grandmother passed, one of the biggest projects was cleaning out her stuff. She was a massive hoarder, but we found all these beautiful prints she had just buried under boxes. She was an artist, so she did lots of painting and photography, so as a family initiative, we had all her stuff framed and archived properly.

My favorite is the 8x10 contact print of the Atomic Bomb Dome (原爆ド一ム) in the late 1950s by my grandmother Toshiko. This is a super old print from the 1950s so there is natural yellowing of the paper. My grandmother most likely took this photo in her mid 20s. Hiroshima was a very important place for my family as many relatives were lost to the bomb and following WWII internment in the US my grandmother’s family moved back to the rebuilding community in Hiroshima. I’ve been to the peace memorial on multiple occasions and my pictures of the dome definitely are nowhere near as good as this. I am 95% sure that a Large Format View Camera was used as the top of the dome is extremely sharp while the bottom loses some focus, which is usually attributed to Large Format Camera movements.

With the other prints I like from her collection, it's more about what the Japan she grew up with looked like. I love old and rustic prints because when you really think about them, the people in those scenes saw the world like we do today, in color and in HD. It’s just that the tools didn’t exist for us to be able to capture it like we can actually see it. So my attachment for me is just I love to close my eyes and just try and imagine what the world was like back then.

ADM: For those of us unfamiliar with Hiroshima, can you describe the area (culturally and topographically), and talk about what the documentation process was like?

DC: Hiroshima is a unique prefecture of Japan, and it is shaped by its unique relationship with both modern history and land.

There is historical significance of the main city of Hiroshima given the devastation of the Atomic Bomb during WWII. While often the scars of war haunt an area long after, Hiroshima instead stands as a beacon of world peace. The revitalization of the city was unprecedented, and the Hiroshima Peace Memorial stands as a pillar of hope. Unlike other Japanese cities, where there might be remnants of an older world, Hiroshima is truly a modern city given that it had to rebuild itself in a post WWII era.

There is also a significance given the wide variation of its topography. Hiroshima blends both its island like feel in the south, with fishing ports and local fishing, with its extreme monotonous terrains in the North. While many Japanese prefectures share a relationship between land and sea, what makes Hiroshima unique to me is the sheer contrast between the sea and the mountains. Thus, when exploring the area and to capture an accurate view of the prefecture, one as to open itself up to the idea of the broad reaching implications of such a wide topographic spread.

The documentation process was a mixture of thoughtful planning and spontaneous decisions. I would never plan more than 5-7 days out, as weather and new learnings would shape the next steps of the journey. As I started to map out my route, I initially was planning to also explore other prefectures to more depth, but ended up spending 80% of my time focused on Hiroshima. One of the really difficult balances I had to negotiate with myself was how much time could I spend just enjoy traveling to new places versus focuses on the project itself. I began to think of this trip more like I would a job. I have a couple of set outcomes that I wanted to see through, and was responsible to myself to complete, but there were also times to relax and enjoy a breather here and there.

Traveling with 30 boxes of 4x5 film is also not an easy task. The key to making it all work was to make sure to be organized and follow the same routine every night and morning. Before arriving to any lodging, the first thing I would so is make sure all my gear was organized. That means camera is put away, film tend is packed up, and anything I planned to leave in the car was covered up. I would carry three bags with me into the hotel, a duffle of clothes, my backpack carry my 4x5 View Camera, and a small bag carrying enough new film to change out. After check in, before even showering or washing up for dinner, I would change out any film I had shot and make sure all my gear was ready for the next day. While this routine and strictness might seem psychopathic, the reason why I maintained this so closely was because it led to minimal mistakes. And the minute the routine was finished, I could spend my evenings relaxing, reflecting, and recovering for the next day.

Loneliness is the greatest enemy when traveling alone. For those who haven’t traveled for great lengths of times by themselves, it is a feeling that you have to get used to. I had prior experience working on a research project alone for 10 weeks, which helped me cope with the extensive feelings of being isolated and without accompaniment. The cruelest person to yourself is yourself. There is moments of doubt that can creep into the sub-conscience. At the same time, traveling alone is a blessing. The freedom to be so engrossed in your own thoughts and be so disconnected from the world around you is hard to get. I tell people, the voice in your head can be both your friend and enemy, but it is all about how you frame it. I often can’t hear myself very loudly until I am alone for 2 weeks. Then the voice rings loud and clear, and allows for honest and open dialogue with oneself.

ADM: When you started the Hiroshima Legacy Project, did you find that your thesis or findings changed as you've gotten deeper into the project, did you have a thesis going in, or has the whole project been a strict document?

DC: The main premise for this process was to create a project that would help me not only connect back to my ancestral roots, but also create a meaningful project to explore and learn about cultural nuances. During this course of brainstorming I was torn by which direction I should move in, as I was fascinated by a couple different areas.

The first area I wanted to understand was the Akiya housing crisis that was taking place in the more rural regions of Japan. This was not only a point of interest based of research, I had made observations in many past trips to Japan that there seemed to be many abandoned homes not just in the country side, but also in the outer parts of cities. The second area I wanted to understand was what the daily life was like for people living the countryside of Japan. My conception of Japan had been limited to the confines of Osaka and Kobe. I heard stories of the countryside from my extended family, but I personally had never familiarized myself to it. I want to experience it on my own terms to gain empathy and understanding of what life was like in those regions. The third area was I wanted to just see Japan through new fresh eyes. Being so familiar with a place can numb you to the beauty that exists. I wanted to see Japan in a new light and framed this project as a way to do so.

Ultimately the outcomes of this project was flexible. I actually didn’t know if I wanted to capture photos of people or photos of the environment when I first started this project. It wasn’t until a fateful encounter of the very first day of the project that I had made up my mind about it. To give some context, I come from a background of human-centered design; essentially design framed through the lens of building empathy with others. One of the key concepts is this idea of doing proper need finding. Need finding focuses on design research and design planning. The premise is that by studying the world around us, we can get a better understanding of what people need, and use those insights to create meaningful ways to think about a concept differently. Need finding draws upon theory and methods from anthropology, psychology, engineering and design planning. Yet my intial concept of this project didn’t have speaking and talking with people be the central focus of the project. My failure in all of this was I was too cocky and thought that I had enough information to conduct a successful project without the bounds of getting to know others.

On the first day of the project I drove off into a ditch on a mountain road. This was totally 100% my fault for being naive about driving in Japan. One, the steering wheel was on the other side of the car. The second, mountain roads in Japan are narrow and tricky. I was distraught, in disbelief, and thought the project was going to end on the very first day. Luckily, right behind me was a mother who was on her way home from grocery shopping. She helped me call a tow truck and waited with me for over an hour until it arrived. We spoke about what life was like in Shiso and Hyogo Prefecture. It was during this conversation that I realized I was arrogant to think I could capture a place without understanding the people that lived there. Sure, I could take photos of trees and rivers that would print beautifully, but there would be no substance. Later that day, the very first photo of this project turned out to be a shot of a man working on his field in a tractor. He had on a SF giants baseball cap, and it turned out his daughter had moved to SF. He was so excited that he called her up and we spoke over the phone. I am not religious, but if there was a sign from God this was it. From then, I decided this project was going to be about people.

ADM: I know the goal of the Project was to document the current citizens and places of the prefecture, but did you end up documenting some of the effects of the population decline? if so, or if you want to speak on it, what did you find?

DC: The biggest learning I had throughout this project was the joy that people in these areas continue to have. I see the city culture of Japan to be depressing in many ways. The youth drink themselves in their sorrow and misery in the harsh working culture. In contrast, the countryside may be “dying off”, but the relationships people share with each other continue to be beacons of light in the area. I am not naive to ignore the fact that the population of the countryside and the towns are slowly fading away. In terms of population decline, I also shot many sheets of BW 4x5 film. These shots captured more of the sorrow and decline of the region. Many of these photos consist of abandoned homes, abandoned hotels, or even abandoned shops. The sad truth is that these areas are slowly disappearing, and the signs were prevalent wherever I went. I think part of my desire to continue to work on this project was to capture what would be lost before it is too late.

The effects of the decline I noticed that had me the most saddened was the effects it had on communities that once thrived. While of course the abandoned buildings and deserted homes were shocking to witness in person, it was more how empty many central community centers for towns felt. At the same time, I think adversity creates new bonds for people. For example, I spent many days stopping by old elementary schools that had transformed itself into community centers for the elderly. There people from the town would get together to exercise and enjoy each other’s social company. It was a reminder of the power of people and relationships, and will be a lesson I will continue to cherish.

ADM: Will the bigger project - the one you're about to embark on take the form of a book, or an exhibition? Also will the second stage be throughout all of Japan, or continue to focus on Hiroshima Prefecture?

DC: For me right now, I still am trying to figure out what I want to do with all of this work. I feel it is incomplete, and that is probably more to do with me being a perfectionist. I shot these incredible portraits with a 4x5 camera and color film, but I can always see room for improvement. I am still in the process of putting the work together into a more lasting medium. Right now my mind goes to hopefully creating a mini book to share out with people who are interested in it.

In terms of next steps for the project itself, part of my decision to work at a research design firm was to continue to improve my ability to connect with people. I realized that being able to build bridges during a conversation ultimately shaped the outcome of a photo. Where I work now we conduct 3 - 4 hour ethnographic style in home interviews. This is almost like the perfect training ground in order to hone this skill set.

I love photography and continue to practice with the mission of improvement. I hope to gain the confidence to potentially pursue an MFA, but I don’t currently know what is in store for me. I want to continue to document Japan in a unique lens, and I am always thinking about different project ideas to do so.

ADM: What advice would you give to another photographer considering taking on a longer term project? especially one as loaded with history as yours - both personally and globally relevant?

DC: The biggest advice I would give someone is surround yourself with people that care about you and what you are doing. I think it is really easy to get caught in a situation of half a step in, when these projects truly require you to be all in. I wouldn’t be able to make those leaps without having a support system around me of people I know who would have my back.

Beyond just having a good support network, know yourself and what you want to accomplish. What does a successful project look like for me? What do I want to get out of this? What does this all mean? I think these are all questions you have to ask yourself before even getting started and continue to check as you work on a project. If you aren’t taking these steps, then you might get off track of what you truly want to accomplish. Especially if the project is something personal to you, it can feel like a lot of weight to bare. At the end of the day, you can only do what you set your mind to.

Leaving this with one last thought, photography should never feel like it's burdening you when you are working on a personal long term project. Because the minute it is framed as a nuance, then the love of the craft is gone. The entire love of the project can dissipate without it being finished. I don’t have an answer of how to always keep a positive frame, but finding something to help ground yourself is the best piece of advice I have received, so relaying it here.

ADM: Where can we find your work? Do you have any printed projects or exhibitions coming up? Do you have any parting words? Thank you again for doing this interview!

DC: Most of my work is on Instagram and I am slowly putting together my website. I haven’t had the time to put the effort I would like to revamp it, but it is coming I promise.

In terms of printed projects or exhibition right now I am working on getting all these photos together and organized. I think the first priority would be to compile it into either a Zine or a book, so those are the next steps I am currently taking.

For parting words, thanks for doing the interview and it was a great way to collect thoughts in a structure that I hadn’t had before!

GAIJIN: The Arevalo Brothers

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Thanks for agreeing to do this interview! for those not familiar with you, could you both briefly introduce yourselves and describe your work together, and as individuals?

Andrew Arevalo: Hello! My name is Andrew Arevalo. I wouldn't label my work as one thing such as "street photography" because I tend to take photos of anything that catches my attention. Lately my work is all Black and White for the simplicity of it and discovery of space within myself and other people. Me and Anthony's work are very separate, even as twin brothers. I have noticed we'll come across the same subject and take completely different photos.

Anthony Arevalo: Hey I'm Anthony, Andrew's twin brother and vice versa. I work full time at Samy's Camera and have taken photos for the past 6 years now. Interest includes cycling, skating, music, anime, and some art which all have gotten tangled in my little journey of photography. Those things can explain themselves when it comes to explaining what kind of photos I have made around them, but I guess it's the stuff when those all are absent that gets trickier to put into words. Lately I have been finding my photos having less and less people... Lately I've been trying to capture the mundane, feelings I don't quite understand, and trying to start a narrative of a lonely landscape in such a dense world. This book in particular though ties in a lot of stuff I enjoy very dearly in a different world from my own. I definitely wouldn't mind making this a yearly habit.

ADM: We're here talking about your upcoming (or recently released) book Gaijin -- can you give me an overview of what the book is about, and what it means to you?

Andrew Arevalo: The overview of our coming book, Gaijin (slang for foreigner/outsider) is just our view on how we romanticized Japan as it has been a dream of ours to visit for a long time now. It's a lot of firsts for me, first time out of the country, first time in Japan, first time doing a book vs a zine, first time planning a solo show (with my brother of course) . It's a milestone in my photography in how work gets produced and how it is received I am so thankful for everyone's support through the whole project.

Anthony Arevalo: Gaijin is a collection of photos by two twin brothers that have shared lots of similar interests. As a close follower of skating, music, art, and track bike culture (vs cycling in general), Japan has been a very sought out place to expand your reach and exposure. Not saying that you go to gain popularity but to gain a understanding and appreciation for what you love. I now see and understand what was once something a wide eyes teenager could only dream of. And I got to do it with, and I don't admit it enough, one of my best friend I could ever ask for, Andrew, my twin brother. Model after what I feel like a travel journal slash Japanese photo book? This book highlights truly one of the best experience I have made in my life so far.

ADM: I've made a few books now, but I've never actually worked with another person directly on the same book. What was the process of working on a collaborative book like? Did you know you were going to end up publishing one book together rather than two separate books or zines?

Andrew Arevalo: The process was somewhat natural, being twins and growing up together we have very similar tastes in pretty much everything to a certain degree. But we had a lot of help getting our creative ideas out onto paper and design. Our friend, Daniel Lurvey, is a graphic designer for a living and wanted something fun to work on outside of work and absolutely nailed the cover design and helped us with a more creative approach for the layout. My partner, Amara Higuera, did some lovely writing for the intro that me and Anthony would never have came up with. Through each process we sat down, gave our thoughts, and all agreed during every step.

Anthony Arevalo: Honestly it was bound to happen. Why wouldn't twins do a collaborative project? I knew even before we got on the plane that I wanted to do a book with Andrew and that all the photos I made would be purely for that reason. Other than that we just took photos like normal and worried about the rest later.

ADM: I have to imagine with two separate photographers you had a pretty massive photo pool to pull from -- you've edited the final set into a really nice, concise pool of photos -- what was the selection and sequencing process like?

Andrew Arevalo: We each narrowed down our own individual photos, each of us shooting about 20 rolls. When we picked our favorites we tried to see how it would layer together and narrowed it more from there. As an outside perspective Daniel arranged the photos and it was all of our ideas to have the table of contents in the back to keep the book simple and less clustered.

Anthony Arevalo: If I remembered right I had at least 200 photos I truly liked out of the 14 rolls of film I shot. I later thin that down to a little less than 100. From there we actually had our friend Daniel layout everything out (that's why everything looks so nice) and he essentially thin it down to what it is now with only a few photos being swapped out. Pretty much we just trusted our friend Daniel and obviously he delivered.

ADM: You both make the statement/observation ( also apparent throughout the book) that despite being twins you both have distinctly different shooting styles -- what do you think informs that? Can you both talk about your influences, shared and otherwise -- and do you find that your hobbies and interests outside photography influence your photography -- if so how?

Andrew Arevalo: I think me and my brother have very similar influences as were always sharing stuff we like with each other. We both have the same hobbies essentially but I really think it just comes down to being individuals and no two photos from two different people can be 100% alike. We're both into skating,cycling, and music and I definitely think they influence my photos outside of those hobbies with different perspectives and learning from taking photos in those separate environments.

Anthony Arevalo: I feel like Andrew's photo definitely have more people in them and mine doesn't always have people in them. Other than that I feel like we share the same theme of trying to photograph emotions. As a young photographer I feel like my influences aren't that mature, meaning most of my influences are just probably just the norm usually. But my main influences at the moment would be Clint Woodside, Robert Adam, Araki Nobuyoshi, Dennis McGrath, William Eggleston, and Alec Soth. Of course most of my interest like music, skating, and cycling inspire me tons in photography and life in general. Photographers in all those aspects, at least in the subcategories I follow, have always been linked back to separating from the norm, rebels. I feel like I would want to follow that path.

ADM: How did you find it different to shoot over in Japan, rather than back here in America?

Andrew Arevalo: We definitely got a bit of a "foreigner pass". I felt like it was "easy" to take street photos in Japan because of the culture of being non confrontational, with that being said it wasn't like I was in everyone's face and invading direct privacy I took photos like I normally do but felt less of a chance for a negative response as I have gotten sometimes before.

Anthony Arevalo: Aside from being completely new Japan was a very comfortable place to photograph once I got comfortable which was probably after our 2nd day? The cultural / language barrier did help but as John Sypal would tell anyone, just wear a smile and you'll be fine photographing on the streets of Japan. I had some people giggle after taking some silly photos or giving me a polite wave. We didn't have too much issues; aside from one time when I popped a flash into a police box and they then stopped us down the street claiming they're doing a random search due to Roppangi having a drug problem at the moment.

ADM: What was the key moment for each of you where you knew "this is something different?" Did you document it in the book?

Andrew Arevalo: I felt it as we arrived at the airport, with immigration and the ads right off the plane. With the people at the train station right outside the airport it feels very clichè to say but it felt like being in another world.

Anthony Arevalo: Honestly I don't think our photos are the most unique in this book. What's different is that usually I feel like most Japan travel books/zines are made by not only people who have gone before, but also have friends (as in probably more than a few?) Before going. This is different ‘cause we're almost completely in the shadow going into this, it's also fully self funded and not being made by a publishing label (no matter how much I joke with Clint about it).

ADM: I noticed you both seem to stick with black and white for most of the book, but there's a good bit of color mixed in -- is this an intentional commentary, or is it in line with both of your regular shooting styles?

Andrew Arevalo: Most of the b&w photos are mine, as that has been my preference for the last couple of years. But with hopes of the Cherry Blossoms blooming (we had just missed the big bloom as we were leaving) I knew I needed at least a couple of rolls of color but looking back at it now the high contrast flash stuff I had gotten with Cherry Blossoms in the background I yet again do not see a NEED for color film anywhere.

Anthony Arevalo: The fact that it's mostly black and white is mostly cause of Andrew. He has been sticking to just black and white film for a little more than a year. I like to mix it up, I usually don't shoot the same film twice in a row and I like to alternate between color and b&w. So by that logic the book is probably 3/4 b&w. I shot 7 rolls of color and 7 of black and white.

ADM: Looking forward, you're both headed back to japan again this year -- will you make another volume of the book? What do you think will be different this time around?

Andrew Arevalo: I don't believe we'll make Gaijin a series but rather produce something else. This time around we are going with a couple of friends from Middle School that will be visiting for the first time and take photos as well. We will be making something less serious and simpler as a group.

Anthony Arevalo: Everyone has been asking if we are going to expand on our book or do another volume since we haven't printed our current one. No we're not going to expand or continue our book Gaijin. Gaijin is meant, at least to me, a one off chapter in our journey of self discovery. What's different this time around is we're going to Japan this time with our childhood friends Yao and Ernesto. While we are planning to make a zine vs a book this time it will definitely be different. It'll be more of a travel log/Journal vs a photo essay of sort that we are currently working on.

ADM: For someone on the fence about taking on a big trip or a project during a big trip like that, that requires them to take a leap of faith, what advice can you give?

Andrew Arevalo: You can't ever produce something unless you take the steps into the process. But for our project it grew naturally. As photographers that are fans of anything printed matter we naturally knew we would take a ton of photos and they would need a home.

Anthony Arevalo: Don't over think it. All I knew I want to do before getting on the plane was I wanted to make a book and that I want to have a show to release it if possible. I bugged so many people about things before I even had anything to show them. The only advice I can give is just shoot. Shoot and figure it out later, everything will form eventually. Give it as much time as you think it needs. The only practical advice I can give is if you have a issue with the sheer amount of stuff you have like I did, try removing things that don't meet a common theme, go through your selection serval times and then after you do don't look at it for a while and come back to it after the honeymoon phase is over.

ADM: When can we expect gaijin to release? What plans do you have for the book -- I know you'd mentioned a gallery show? Where can we buy a copy?

Andrew Arevalo: We have yet to settle on a release date yet. Trying to figure out the best time to drop all of the money on printing and setting a date for the show is what's keeping us back but we are very close to finalizing! It will definitely be this year I hope. The plan is to have the show as a release party and sell the books there, with a dvd of b side moments on Super 8 by Anthony and some other unique gifts to go with the book. If we happen to have any left overs after the show we will sell them through Instagram to anyone interested and a few through These Days where we will hopefully have the show but it will be a somewhat limited run.

Anthony Arevalo: Hopefully we'll have plans for a show end of February if somehow possible, if not it will be after March. I want the book to release at the time of said show. Obviously you can buy a copy at the show, if not we're hoping to leave a few at These Days in downtown for them to sale. Other than that you'll just have to ask us directly to get one. We're assuming mostly friends will be purchasing copies of our books so thank you in advance for your interest. Books are going to be bundled with a DVD of super8 footage I took on the trip and hopefully we'll be able to included a couple of postcards as well. Once again thank you to Andrew for having us!!!