SMALL ABYSS: Chris San Nicolas

March 22, 2020 in interview

SMALL ABYSS: Chris San Nicolas

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar with you or your work, can you introduce yourself and give an overview?

Chris San Nicolas (CSN): Hello, I'm Chris. I'm 26 years old, I live in Long Beach, CA, and I've been practicing photography for about 4 years. I started off bringing disposable cameras on trips and eventually grabbed my own 35mm camera, and it's been a steady and constant progression since then. I shoot a mix of street photography, landscape, and occasionally portraits. I don't shoot with an end goal or a specific photo in mind, I take photos as I go about living my life. I see all of the work as autobiographical in nature - with an overarching desire to represent life honestly, as I see it.

ADM: What was the impetus to put together and publish Small Abyss - also will it be a series - there is a "1" on the spine? A bit of an aside - I thought it was really cool how you used the frame marker 1 for that.

CSN: I made a small zine a year into my start with photography and wanted to make another that was more representative of the work I've been making the past 3 years. Since it spanned a longer period of time and I wanted it to be more complex - physically and conceptually - I decided on a small book. In actuality I've been wanting to make a book for a long time, but around November of 2019 I finally thought up a concept that I believed served as an appropriate and interesting vehicle for this period of work.

I don't intend Small Abyss itself to be a series, but the next book/large zine project will have a frame marker for 2 on it - so more of a numbering system for main projects. Thanks, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't partially get the idea from the cover of that Forte Collab Zine you curated a while back.

ADM: I know that the project, while definitely focused, and the photos are well chosen for it - is compiled from photos taken over the last three years - what was the selection process like? Did you find yourself taking more from a specific time period, or end up using more recent photos over older ones?

CSN: The project developed backwards in a way, with the title coming first and being the impetus for the whole project. I knew I wanted to make a large-ish cumulative project but a subject or theme didn't jump out at me just by looking through my photo archives, nor did a project based on one subject or type of photograph particularly interest me. When I was taking the first steps into the project (still unnamed) I was thinking a lot about how individuals perceive reality - how no one's personal experience can perfectly match up with another's, even if they experience the same events. That thought thread led to the title Small Abyss which (though it has many meanings) is a rebuttal to the line "No man is an island" from John Donne's Devotions Upon Emergent Occassions.

I let those competing ideas inform my selections as I looked through all the b&w work I've made since 2016. Since the theme was an exploration of an idea rather than a physical object or space or specific story, I was able to be creative in what photos I chose. I also wanted the interplay between the photos to be an integral part of the project, so I (painstakingly) cut a few of my favorite photographs I've made from the project because it didn't fit the theme or fit well with the photos in the project that did. I ended up choosing more recent photos than older but that's mostly because I took more pictures in 2019 than any other year. I printed ~200 photos in 4"x6" and taped them to my wall and let the layout create itself in a way. I knew I wanted the majority of the spreads to have one photo on the left and one on the right and function as pairs - one of the ways the photos interplay with each other. I also realized halfway through that I wanted there to be a progression that made sense with how the project exists as a book (which made me go back and change a lot of the pairings). I used this framework to guide the actual layout. It was a really iterative and organic process and though it was really fun, it was also frustrating and took a long time.

ADM: In response to how you Assembled the zine: Did you hand print all the 4x6 prints? Also how did you come up with that process of putting the photos on the wall, and constructing your pairs from there - and how do you think that shaped your process rather than doing the process via sorting on a computer, or straight into a layout program?

CSN: No I used CVS for convenience and cost. I wasn't concerned with quality for these prints because they were more an intermediate form of the project. I've always been a fan of tactile processes, so I'm not sure that I can pinpoint a moment where I thought of using a wall. I think it's always made sense and been an aspiration for as long as I wanted to make a book of photographs. The final product was majorly influenced by this process. I had this birds-eye view of the whole project where every loose connection or interesting interplay would draw my eye like the movements of small critters in a large grassy field. When I saw these connections, I could immediately move the photos next to each other, replace one of them with another that works but in a different way, compare them to other pairings and so on with a speed and physicality that I don't know how to reproduce with a digital process. Screens are only so big and there's a trade-off between scope (how many elements you can see at at once) and detail (how clearly you can see each element) which are largely eliminated if you have a wall, prints, and mobility. Maybe I don't know how to use digital tools effectively enough, but I can never experiment as quickly on a computer with the mixing and matching described above and I had the added benefit of seeing the physicality of the photographs. With the goal being a book, this was invaluable. A lot of these frames I had only seen as scans on a screen and I was surprised by how many photographs that I had enjoyed initially, did not hold up when printed.

ADM: The book contains a fairly intricate balance of landscapes (vernacular and traditional) with intimate portraits, and candid glimpses into other lives - how did you strike this balance this, and is there a particular significance to it?

CSN: As I mentioned before, an overarching goal for my photography is to represent life genuinely and I wanted this project to embody all the varied experiences in life. I used the balance of all of these kinds of photos as a way to do that. To reinforce this, I jumped around in scale a lot, for example going immediately from a close up of something tiny to a large sweeping landscape. And though the project doesn't stick to a single type of photo, there's a lot of repetition but also contrast in motifs throughout. A lot of the spreads present two similar things in different ways or two very different things in similar ways - like some kind of oxymoron. This ordered chaos is how I see life and I hope that feeling comes across.

ADM: Was there a particular moment or photo, or even pair of photos - that the overall concept "clicked" into focus for you?

CSN: It wasn't with the photos that the concept clicked. There were two breakthrough points for me. The first was when I wrote the first draft of the poem (or 3 poems depending on how you look at it) in the beginning of the book. I had even used the phrase "No man is an island" in that first draft, which was taken out later.

The second breakthrough was when I was deciding on the overall structure of the book. Initially I wanted the book to be able to be read left to right (normally) as well as outside-in, where you'd start with the inside covers and turn a page on each side in until you reached the middle spread. The idea was for these outside-in "spreads" would work as mirrors or opposites of each other. The main gripe I had was that people don't read books like that and if I'm doing something that weird, it has to reinforce or add to the concept in a meaningful way. I scrapped the idea and played around with a few more related ideas until deciding on one. The final layout has a sense of progression that works with the experience of reading a book and how the photos are presented.

ADM: Going back to the zine being a focused anthology, what would you say your key influences were for it - photographic, or otherwise?

CSN: Presentation-wise, I took a lot of cues from Japanese photography from the 60's and 70's. A Hunter by Daido Moriyama and the Asahi Camera publications come to mind. Both often featured full bleeds on their two page spreads as well as their multi-photo spreads. Another influence was Rap/Hip-Hop which I have only recently started exploring. I've always enjoyed wordplay and turns of phrase. I especially like when someone pivots, talking about a whole new topic based on a double meaning of a single word from the previous line. I wanted the progression of photographs in the book to feel like a series of pivots or turns in phrase maybe even audio samples taken from diverse sources but meshed into the narrative I was trying to create.

ADM: In terms of takeaway, what did you notice about your work, and by extension, about how you and your vision changed over the three year period?

CSN: The biggest takeaway I had was realizing how much of my work had been guided by my subconscious, the same subconscious that attached to the concept of Small Abyss Vs No Man Is An Island. I feel like this idea has always been in the back of my head and after these 3ish years of it quietly guiding my intuition as I made photographs, it finally bubbled to the surface and I had enough work to express it in a satisfactory way. But now that the cat's out of the bag, it's something I feel like I'll always be conscious of and because of that I'm not sure if I'll keep making work like this going forward. This project feels like a bookend, at least for the last few months it has. I haven't been shooting nearly as much once I started making the book and I think it's because I want to tackle a different problem with a different artistic language or medium. I'd say the biggest realization is that I was always working towards something like this and now, at least until I'm no longer burned out on this work, it's time for something new.

ADM: Now that you've wrapped up Small Abyss, what can we look forward to in the future?

CSN: I honestly couldn't say. I'm still taking pictures, just not as frenzied as before. Definitely more photography, probably less exclusive b&w 35mm film work. The project has definitely made me want to do more physical projects. Now that I have the large overarching project done, I've given myself permission, I guess, to do smaller, more niche projects possibly with a more mixed media approach.

ADM: Would you say after this project your working process has changed? if so how, if not why not?

CSN: I'd say it has definitely slowed down. I've been putting a lot of energy into finishing the book and have been shooting less. I hope I'll eventually get back into a groove where I'm shooting at least a roll a week. I think I'll have to start making smaller projects with goals in mind or define more explicit long term projects instead of idly shooting.

ADM: What advice would you give for someone looking to put together a retrospective of their work, especially one covering as much material as yours does?

CSN: Have a concept or theme that you can dig into and also have enough work to fulfill it. Make sure to overview all your work, there might be stuff you forgot about that will work really well. Keep asking yourself questions and don't get married to any one idea.

ADM: Do you have any parting words? Also where can we pick up copies of Small Abyss and see more of your work - I know you do print on demand - both darkroom and inkjet.

CSN: Just stay safe and sane and healthy. Small Abyss will be available on my website www.chrisnicpics.com or through DM via ig at @chrisnicpics. You can also see my work on my website and ig. I do, I'm still figuring it out more consistent print sales but if you follow me on either platform, I'll let you all know on there. Thanks again for doing this interview with me and promoting the project, Andrew. Really appreciate all the stuff you do for the community!

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SURE: Daniel Wang

March 14, 2020 in interview

SURE: Daniel Wang

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren't familiar, could you introduce yourself and your work, photographic or otherwise?

Daniel Wang (DW): Hi. My name is Daniel Wang and I am based out of Toronto, Ontario. I developed a fond interest in photography 3 years ago when I was introduced to skateboarding by the wonderful community I was surrounded by. How I thought about and viewed architecture and other physical aspects of a city were completely changed when I dove deeper into the the craft and mindset. My enthusiasm in street photography and photography as an art form was sparked through the exploration of my environments evoked by skateboarding and when my roommate introduced me to film photography and the history of art. Since then, I have worked professionally in event photography and started attending Ryerson University to further my understanding of the medium as a tool for creative expression. Currently available works include, my first photo zine "sure" and a selection of film photographs in my visual diary on instagram @danxuwang.

ADM: "Sure" looks like it's a zine about a trip or travel - was there a specific trip it was from? - what's the story behind it, and where does the title come from?

DW: "sure" is a photo zine of a 40 hour trip I took to New York City on the last weekend of my reading week for school. I used a roll of Fuji Pro 400H and Kodak Portra 400, with my Canon Sureshot 70 zoom, developed and scanned at the local camera store. Many notable photographers of New York have inspired the run and gun and silent observer styles of photography present in the zine. On the creation of the title, who really knows. I could have been really stoned with my roommate and saw the "sure" in canon sureshot and called it a day, or it could mean something more. Something to do with the definition of "sure" as a definite affirmation and how the word is ironically perceived today as a "duh" or "whatever". Nevertheless, nothing is more ensuring then documenting a captured image and as a mantra, I can't help but say sure to an exhausting and mind stimulating 40 hour trip in New York.

ADM: You use a lot of color blocking and color on your background (which I find really neat) - is there a significance to those color blocks, or is it an alternative to white to augment the images?

DW: I feel like there is a significance to the colour blocking. The editor and I really thought about the physicality and rhythm of the book and completed it overnight, we were very inspired. How the book felt to read through was most important. The tapered colour pages and coloured spreads provoke and primes the reader from every angle before even opening the book. The colours in the backgrounds are equally as important as the photos presented on the spread. We really tried colours until our intuition told us to stop. Inspiration came from colour palettes we'd see in the photos and our everyday life, from the t-shirts hanging in chinatown to our random assortments of gathered knickknacks. How did you find the coloured spreads and taper pages, Andrew? Do you have a favourite page and why?

ADM: I quite liked them! I found that as a photograph Page 10 (or the 10th Spread — Pictured here directly above) is my favorite -- but that's very much a personal appeal - I really like centerfold images on a spread, especially used in a landscape/survey style -- as far as overall spreads 15 and 19 were my favorite layouts or sets of multiple images together, both for the image choice and the intersection of the images. Tying into the above - the zine seems to be chronologically ordered - what was the sequencing and selection process like for "sure?"

DW: I am glad the zine seems to be chronologically ordered, but it was definitely not! Again, we really just relied on intuition and instinct and wanted to experiment with something different then what we were accustomed too. Each spread was made with specific themes in mind, whether we wanted to completely highlight an image or add colour and shapes to the viewing space to augment the image. Putting it together was just seeing what felt right where. I would say these weren't my best photos of New York but they made the most sense for me to put together for this zine. The catalyst for the zine derives from thinking about how important the presentation or delivery of something can be, compared to the thing itself. Along with all the physical aspects of print and book making, creating this zine has opened a new channel for me to express my ideas.

ADM: You mention working with an editor rather than strictly self-editing the zine - I think this is a great idea - who was the editor and what was the process like working with an editor outside yourself?

DW: As much as I love the idea of independently produced products I believe my collaboration with my editor, roommate and good friend Kolwyn McKinstry was an important element to developing and fine tuning my creative ideas. The hardest part is finding the right people you can confide in and share a creative vision with. Once I started talking more personally about expression, photography zines and colour, the discourse between Kolwyn and I became very valuable towards how our work process developed. Having another person to share my ideas with, helped me formulate and create this with much more confidence. He kept me stoked !!

ADM: I really like the thematic togetherness of the book - was there a specific moment or impetus where it clicked to step away from the confines of strictly ordering things chronologically as many zines are want to do?

DW: Again, I appreciate that dearly. TBH, I had originally planned for the zine to be chronological but with our emphasis on how the book feels to read, we preferred the rhythm of the order we had chosen. It is hard to say if there was a specific moment or impetus, but it is a smoother read this way.

ADM: It's really cool to hear that this has opened up a new venue to express yourself - are you planning more zines?

DW: I am planning more zines! Going through this process has made me realize how much I love doing it, it is an interesting medium and I plan to experiment more with my editor and any willing collaborators for future zines.

ADM: Where can we pick up copies of Sure? and see more of your work?

DW: Sure can be picked up on my website www.danxuwang.com or by DMing me on instagram @danxuwang. I plan on releasing prints and more zines. It is currently a 1 man operation, but I will do my best to ship it in a timely manner !!

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Hiroshima Legacy Project: David Chao

March 07, 2020 in interview

Hiroshima Legacy Project: David Chao

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those unfamiliar with you, can you introduce yourself, and talk a little bit about your photowork and practice outside Hiroshima Road Trip and Instagram?

David Chao (DC): A little bit about me, I am David Chao and I am a half Japanese and half Chinese American born and raised between San Francisco and Kobe, Japan.

I studied Product Design in college, and photography became a big passion of mine on the side. I started off learning in the school darkroom in an intro photography class, and then spent 2 years serving as a lab assistant and teaching other students. Teaching others skills or knowledge I have is something I enjoy quite fondly, and today I still serve as an adjunct lecturer at Stanford in Design Research, essentially a class focused on how to do ethnographic design research.

I used to shoot digitally on the side quite a bit, but my love for photography emerged in 2016 when I took my first film photography class. Something about the physical tangibility of using chemicals and making prints with my hands turned me into a lover of film. I currently shoot 35mm, medium, and large format. For me each film type serves a different purpose, and I don’t particularly like one over the other. I feel I am still exploring all the different ways film and cameras can be used to capture what I love.

My projects, or more serious projects, have all revolved around shooting in Japan. For me the biggest aspect is being both an insider and outsider gives me a unique perspective. I spent years growing up culturally between Japan and the US, and so I know enough about the inner thinking and culture to recognize certain behaviors. But at the same time, I am very much American, and that gives me foresight into being able to view scenes or actions taken from an outsider’s perspective. This to me has made photography projects in Japan as one’s that feel like the most genuine.

I tend not to post my most important or favorite work on Instagram. The reason being is Instagram was always just a way for me to find like minded people who enjoyed photography, not as a medium to share it. Over time I have loved the community of people I have met.

ADM: What was the inspiration for the project?

DC: After graduating from Stanford University in 2018 with a degree in Engineering -Product Design, I set out to capture a project I titled the “Hiroshima Legacy Project”. Using a 4x5 View Camera the goal of this project was to document the people of smaller towns all around Hiroshima Prefecture. Given the urban migration and the aging population, lots of small towns and even small cities in Hiroshima prefecture are starting to slowly die out.

The inspiration for this project began in the summer of 2017, a day after my sister’s 12th birthday party, my grandmother Toshiko passed away in her home. Toshiko was born to Soichi and Kumayo Morimoto of Hiroshima on September 10, 1930 in Watsonville, California, where she grew up with her six siblings until World War II. In 1942, President Roosevelt issued Executive Order 9066, and the government imprisoned the Morimoto family, including teenaged Toshiko and her siblings, in concentration camps – first in Poston, Arizona, then in Tule Lake, California. After the war, the US government repatriated the Morimoto family to Hiroshima. In her memory, I wanted to create a photographic essay capturing stories and faces of Hiroshima.

Along the way she picked up a hobby of photography and always had a camera with her. One of the reasons I decided to take a film photography class at Stanford was to be able to share some common experiences with her and her passion for art in general. The summer before my senior year of college my grandmother had passed away after fighting illness for many years. Before she had passed, she rounded up lots of old film and gathered all the older film cameras she had collected. While many of them do not work, one of my favorite cameras of all time was a Yashica T4 Super Zoom.

While in the midst of going over my future, finishing up my degree in Engineering - Product Design, and applying for jobs, I began to formulate a year long project following my graduation from Stanford. The first stage of that project was creating a darkroom space/studio to promote the photographic arts. Whether it’s just with family and friends, or eventually something more open to the local SF community, I wanted to create a space in her memory. The second stage is this upcoming project to travel to the rural and countryside communities of Japan and capture them before they completely fade away.

ADM: I've noticed that all of the photos you post on instagram of the Road Trip are numbered of 360. What's the significance of 360?

DC: I shot 10 rolls of provia100f on the road trip casually, so these are really more works from me just having fun with photography.

The real work from the road trip was 4x5 portrait shots, which I have only posted infrequently and rarely actually on Instagram. I can send you that in person, as I think those would be more interesting to post.

ADM: Is the road trip part of or related to a bigger or different body of work you're working on?

DC: I think for me right now the biggest thing is I want to be able to document culture and people in a meaningful way. For me what I like to capture hopefully tells a story, and my goal is to make this a foundation for a bigger project in the future.

For myself the biggest lesson I learned is: I don’t know as much as I thought I did.

One, I want to continue to improve my technique as a photographer. I felt that there were moments where I was limited on how I could capture a scene based off inexperience.

Two, I want to learn how to connect with people better and be more assertive in the field. This is something that I have been getting experience with at work currently. I work at a design research firm and as part of projects we conduct 3 hour long ethnographic style in-home interviews. This is perfect training for being able to guide with the right level of authority, but also dig for information in order to create a great photograph. It’s a little unorthodox, but it is something I am excited to try and translate to other mediums in the future.

ADM: In the past you've posted historic or archival photos that your grandmother took -- I find them really fascinating. How did you get into that, and have you had any favorite images from those archives, and any that you find really interesting, historically?

DC: When my grandmother passed, one of the biggest projects was cleaning out her stuff. She was a massive hoarder, but we found all these beautiful prints she had just buried under boxes. She was an artist, so she did lots of painting and photography, so as a family initiative, we had all her stuff framed and archived properly.

My favorite is the 8x10 contact print of the Atomic Bomb Dome (原爆ド一ム) in the late 1950s by my grandmother Toshiko. This is a super old print from the 1950s so there is natural yellowing of the paper. My grandmother most likely took this photo in her mid 20s. Hiroshima was a very important place for my family as many relatives were lost to the bomb and following WWII internment in the US my grandmother’s family moved back to the rebuilding community in Hiroshima. I’ve been to the peace memorial on multiple occasions and my pictures of the dome definitely are nowhere near as good as this. I am 95% sure that a Large Format View Camera was used as the top of the dome is extremely sharp while the bottom loses some focus, which is usually attributed to Large Format Camera movements.

With the other prints I like from her collection, it's more about what the Japan she grew up with looked like. I love old and rustic prints because when you really think about them, the people in those scenes saw the world like we do today, in color and in HD. It’s just that the tools didn’t exist for us to be able to capture it like we can actually see it. So my attachment for me is just I love to close my eyes and just try and imagine what the world was like back then.

ADM: For those of us unfamiliar with Hiroshima, can you describe the area (culturally and topographically), and talk about what the documentation process was like?

DC: Hiroshima is a unique prefecture of Japan, and it is shaped by its unique relationship with both modern history and land.

There is historical significance of the main city of Hiroshima given the devastation of the Atomic Bomb during WWII. While often the scars of war haunt an area long after, Hiroshima instead stands as a beacon of world peace. The revitalization of the city was unprecedented, and the Hiroshima Peace Memorial stands as a pillar of hope. Unlike other Japanese cities, where there might be remnants of an older world, Hiroshima is truly a modern city given that it had to rebuild itself in a post WWII era.

There is also a significance given the wide variation of its topography. Hiroshima blends both its island like feel in the south, with fishing ports and local fishing, with its extreme monotonous terrains in the North. While many Japanese prefectures share a relationship between land and sea, what makes Hiroshima unique to me is the sheer contrast between the sea and the mountains. Thus, when exploring the area and to capture an accurate view of the prefecture, one as to open itself up to the idea of the broad reaching implications of such a wide topographic spread.

The documentation process was a mixture of thoughtful planning and spontaneous decisions. I would never plan more than 5-7 days out, as weather and new learnings would shape the next steps of the journey. As I started to map out my route, I initially was planning to also explore other prefectures to more depth, but ended up spending 80% of my time focused on Hiroshima. One of the really difficult balances I had to negotiate with myself was how much time could I spend just enjoy traveling to new places versus focuses on the project itself. I began to think of this trip more like I would a job. I have a couple of set outcomes that I wanted to see through, and was responsible to myself to complete, but there were also times to relax and enjoy a breather here and there.

Traveling with 30 boxes of 4x5 film is also not an easy task. The key to making it all work was to make sure to be organized and follow the same routine every night and morning. Before arriving to any lodging, the first thing I would so is make sure all my gear was organized. That means camera is put away, film tend is packed up, and anything I planned to leave in the car was covered up. I would carry three bags with me into the hotel, a duffle of clothes, my backpack carry my 4x5 View Camera, and a small bag carrying enough new film to change out. After check in, before even showering or washing up for dinner, I would change out any film I had shot and make sure all my gear was ready for the next day. While this routine and strictness might seem psychopathic, the reason why I maintained this so closely was because it led to minimal mistakes. And the minute the routine was finished, I could spend my evenings relaxing, reflecting, and recovering for the next day.

Loneliness is the greatest enemy when traveling alone. For those who haven’t traveled for great lengths of times by themselves, it is a feeling that you have to get used to. I had prior experience working on a research project alone for 10 weeks, which helped me cope with the extensive feelings of being isolated and without accompaniment. The cruelest person to yourself is yourself. There is moments of doubt that can creep into the sub-conscience. At the same time, traveling alone is a blessing. The freedom to be so engrossed in your own thoughts and be so disconnected from the world around you is hard to get. I tell people, the voice in your head can be both your friend and enemy, but it is all about how you frame it. I often can’t hear myself very loudly until I am alone for 2 weeks. Then the voice rings loud and clear, and allows for honest and open dialogue with oneself.

ADM: When you started the Hiroshima Legacy Project, did you find that your thesis or findings changed as you've gotten deeper into the project, did you have a thesis going in, or has the whole project been a strict document?

DC: The main premise for this process was to create a project that would help me not only connect back to my ancestral roots, but also create a meaningful project to explore and learn about cultural nuances. During this course of brainstorming I was torn by which direction I should move in, as I was fascinated by a couple different areas.

The first area I wanted to understand was the Akiya housing crisis that was taking place in the more rural regions of Japan. This was not only a point of interest based of research, I had made observations in many past trips to Japan that there seemed to be many abandoned homes not just in the country side, but also in the outer parts of cities. The second area I wanted to understand was what the daily life was like for people living the countryside of Japan. My conception of Japan had been limited to the confines of Osaka and Kobe. I heard stories of the countryside from my extended family, but I personally had never familiarized myself to it. I want to experience it on my own terms to gain empathy and understanding of what life was like in those regions. The third area was I wanted to just see Japan through new fresh eyes. Being so familiar with a place can numb you to the beauty that exists. I wanted to see Japan in a new light and framed this project as a way to do so.

Ultimately the outcomes of this project was flexible. I actually didn’t know if I wanted to capture photos of people or photos of the environment when I first started this project. It wasn’t until a fateful encounter of the very first day of the project that I had made up my mind about it. To give some context, I come from a background of human-centered design; essentially design framed through the lens of building empathy with others. One of the key concepts is this idea of doing proper need finding. Need finding focuses on design research and design planning. The premise is that by studying the world around us, we can get a better understanding of what people need, and use those insights to create meaningful ways to think about a concept differently. Need finding draws upon theory and methods from anthropology, psychology, engineering and design planning. Yet my intial concept of this project didn’t have speaking and talking with people be the central focus of the project. My failure in all of this was I was too cocky and thought that I had enough information to conduct a successful project without the bounds of getting to know others.

On the first day of the project I drove off into a ditch on a mountain road. This was totally 100% my fault for being naive about driving in Japan. One, the steering wheel was on the other side of the car. The second, mountain roads in Japan are narrow and tricky. I was distraught, in disbelief, and thought the project was going to end on the very first day. Luckily, right behind me was a mother who was on her way home from grocery shopping. She helped me call a tow truck and waited with me for over an hour until it arrived. We spoke about what life was like in Shiso and Hyogo Prefecture. It was during this conversation that I realized I was arrogant to think I could capture a place without understanding the people that lived there. Sure, I could take photos of trees and rivers that would print beautifully, but there would be no substance. Later that day, the very first photo of this project turned out to be a shot of a man working on his field in a tractor. He had on a SF giants baseball cap, and it turned out his daughter had moved to SF. He was so excited that he called her up and we spoke over the phone. I am not religious, but if there was a sign from God this was it. From then, I decided this project was going to be about people.

ADM: I know the goal of the Project was to document the current citizens and places of the prefecture, but did you end up documenting some of the effects of the population decline? if so, or if you want to speak on it, what did you find?

DC: The biggest learning I had throughout this project was the joy that people in these areas continue to have. I see the city culture of Japan to be depressing in many ways. The youth drink themselves in their sorrow and misery in the harsh working culture. In contrast, the countryside may be “dying off”, but the relationships people share with each other continue to be beacons of light in the area. I am not naive to ignore the fact that the population of the countryside and the towns are slowly fading away. In terms of population decline, I also shot many sheets of BW 4x5 film. These shots captured more of the sorrow and decline of the region. Many of these photos consist of abandoned homes, abandoned hotels, or even abandoned shops. The sad truth is that these areas are slowly disappearing, and the signs were prevalent wherever I went. I think part of my desire to continue to work on this project was to capture what would be lost before it is too late.

The effects of the decline I noticed that had me the most saddened was the effects it had on communities that once thrived. While of course the abandoned buildings and deserted homes were shocking to witness in person, it was more how empty many central community centers for towns felt. At the same time, I think adversity creates new bonds for people. For example, I spent many days stopping by old elementary schools that had transformed itself into community centers for the elderly. There people from the town would get together to exercise and enjoy each other’s social company. It was a reminder of the power of people and relationships, and will be a lesson I will continue to cherish.

ADM: Will the bigger project - the one you're about to embark on take the form of a book, or an exhibition? Also will the second stage be throughout all of Japan, or continue to focus on Hiroshima Prefecture?

DC: For me right now, I still am trying to figure out what I want to do with all of this work. I feel it is incomplete, and that is probably more to do with me being a perfectionist. I shot these incredible portraits with a 4x5 camera and color film, but I can always see room for improvement. I am still in the process of putting the work together into a more lasting medium. Right now my mind goes to hopefully creating a mini book to share out with people who are interested in it.

In terms of next steps for the project itself, part of my decision to work at a research design firm was to continue to improve my ability to connect with people. I realized that being able to build bridges during a conversation ultimately shaped the outcome of a photo. Where I work now we conduct 3 - 4 hour ethnographic style in home interviews. This is almost like the perfect training ground in order to hone this skill set.

I love photography and continue to practice with the mission of improvement. I hope to gain the confidence to potentially pursue an MFA, but I don’t currently know what is in store for me. I want to continue to document Japan in a unique lens, and I am always thinking about different project ideas to do so.

ADM: What advice would you give to another photographer considering taking on a longer term project? especially one as loaded with history as yours - both personally and globally relevant?

DC: The biggest advice I would give someone is surround yourself with people that care about you and what you are doing. I think it is really easy to get caught in a situation of half a step in, when these projects truly require you to be all in. I wouldn’t be able to make those leaps without having a support system around me of people I know who would have my back.

Beyond just having a good support network, know yourself and what you want to accomplish. What does a successful project look like for me? What do I want to get out of this? What does this all mean? I think these are all questions you have to ask yourself before even getting started and continue to check as you work on a project. If you aren’t taking these steps, then you might get off track of what you truly want to accomplish. Especially if the project is something personal to you, it can feel like a lot of weight to bare. At the end of the day, you can only do what you set your mind to.

Leaving this with one last thought, photography should never feel like it's burdening you when you are working on a personal long term project. Because the minute it is framed as a nuance, then the love of the craft is gone. The entire love of the project can dissipate without it being finished. I don’t have an answer of how to always keep a positive frame, but finding something to help ground yourself is the best piece of advice I have received, so relaying it here.

ADM: Where can we find your work? Do you have any printed projects or exhibitions coming up? Do you have any parting words? Thank you again for doing this interview!

DC: Most of my work is on Instagram and I am slowly putting together my website. I haven’t had the time to put the effort I would like to revamp it, but it is coming I promise.

In terms of printed projects or exhibition right now I am working on getting all these photos together and organized. I think the first priority would be to compile it into either a Zine or a book, so those are the next steps I am currently taking.

For parting words, thanks for doing the interview and it was a great way to collect thoughts in a structure that I hadn’t had before!

GAIJIN: The Arevalo Brothers

February 15, 2020 in interview

GAIJIN: The Arevalo Brothers

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Thanks for agreeing to do this interview! for those not familiar with you, could you both briefly introduce yourselves and describe your work together, and as individuals?

Andrew Arevalo: Hello! My name is Andrew Arevalo. I wouldn't label my work as one thing such as "street photography" because I tend to take photos of anything that catches my attention. Lately my work is all Black and White for the simplicity of it and discovery of space within myself and other people. Me and Anthony's work are very separate, even as twin brothers. I have noticed we'll come across the same subject and take completely different photos.

Anthony Arevalo: Hey I'm Anthony, Andrew's twin brother and vice versa. I work full time at Samy's Camera and have taken photos for the past 6 years now. Interest includes cycling, skating, music, anime, and some art which all have gotten tangled in my little journey of photography. Those things can explain themselves when it comes to explaining what kind of photos I have made around them, but I guess it's the stuff when those all are absent that gets trickier to put into words. Lately I have been finding my photos having less and less people... Lately I've been trying to capture the mundane, feelings I don't quite understand, and trying to start a narrative of a lonely landscape in such a dense world. This book in particular though ties in a lot of stuff I enjoy very dearly in a different world from my own. I definitely wouldn't mind making this a yearly habit.

ADM: We're here talking about your upcoming (or recently released) book Gaijin -- can you give me an overview of what the book is about, and what it means to you?

Andrew Arevalo: The overview of our coming book, Gaijin (slang for foreigner/outsider) is just our view on how we romanticized Japan as it has been a dream of ours to visit for a long time now. It's a lot of firsts for me, first time out of the country, first time in Japan, first time doing a book vs a zine, first time planning a solo show (with my brother of course) . It's a milestone in my photography in how work gets produced and how it is received I am so thankful for everyone's support through the whole project.

Anthony Arevalo: Gaijin is a collection of photos by two twin brothers that have shared lots of similar interests. As a close follower of skating, music, art, and track bike culture (vs cycling in general), Japan has been a very sought out place to expand your reach and exposure. Not saying that you go to gain popularity but to gain a understanding and appreciation for what you love. I now see and understand what was once something a wide eyes teenager could only dream of. And I got to do it with, and I don't admit it enough, one of my best friend I could ever ask for, Andrew, my twin brother. Model after what I feel like a travel journal slash Japanese photo book? This book highlights truly one of the best experience I have made in my life so far.

ADM: I've made a few books now, but I've never actually worked with another person directly on the same book. What was the process of working on a collaborative book like? Did you know you were going to end up publishing one book together rather than two separate books or zines?

Andrew Arevalo: The process was somewhat natural, being twins and growing up together we have very similar tastes in pretty much everything to a certain degree. But we had a lot of help getting our creative ideas out onto paper and design. Our friend, Daniel Lurvey, is a graphic designer for a living and wanted something fun to work on outside of work and absolutely nailed the cover design and helped us with a more creative approach for the layout. My partner, Amara Higuera, did some lovely writing for the intro that me and Anthony would never have came up with. Through each process we sat down, gave our thoughts, and all agreed during every step.

Anthony Arevalo: Honestly it was bound to happen. Why wouldn't twins do a collaborative project? I knew even before we got on the plane that I wanted to do a book with Andrew and that all the photos I made would be purely for that reason. Other than that we just took photos like normal and worried about the rest later.

ADM: I have to imagine with two separate photographers you had a pretty massive photo pool to pull from -- you've edited the final set into a really nice, concise pool of photos -- what was the selection and sequencing process like?

Andrew Arevalo: We each narrowed down our own individual photos, each of us shooting about 20 rolls. When we picked our favorites we tried to see how it would layer together and narrowed it more from there. As an outside perspective Daniel arranged the photos and it was all of our ideas to have the table of contents in the back to keep the book simple and less clustered.

Anthony Arevalo: If I remembered right I had at least 200 photos I truly liked out of the 14 rolls of film I shot. I later thin that down to a little less than 100. From there we actually had our friend Daniel layout everything out (that's why everything looks so nice) and he essentially thin it down to what it is now with only a few photos being swapped out. Pretty much we just trusted our friend Daniel and obviously he delivered.

ADM: You both make the statement/observation ( also apparent throughout the book) that despite being twins you both have distinctly different shooting styles -- what do you think informs that? Can you both talk about your influences, shared and otherwise -- and do you find that your hobbies and interests outside photography influence your photography -- if so how?

Andrew Arevalo: I think me and my brother have very similar influences as were always sharing stuff we like with each other. We both have the same hobbies essentially but I really think it just comes down to being individuals and no two photos from two different people can be 100% alike. We're both into skating,cycling, and music and I definitely think they influence my photos outside of those hobbies with different perspectives and learning from taking photos in those separate environments.

Anthony Arevalo: I feel like Andrew's photo definitely have more people in them and mine doesn't always have people in them. Other than that I feel like we share the same theme of trying to photograph emotions. As a young photographer I feel like my influences aren't that mature, meaning most of my influences are just probably just the norm usually. But my main influences at the moment would be Clint Woodside, Robert Adam, Araki Nobuyoshi, Dennis McGrath, William Eggleston, and Alec Soth. Of course most of my interest like music, skating, and cycling inspire me tons in photography and life in general. Photographers in all those aspects, at least in the subcategories I follow, have always been linked back to separating from the norm, rebels. I feel like I would want to follow that path.

ADM: How did you find it different to shoot over in Japan, rather than back here in America?

Andrew Arevalo: We definitely got a bit of a "foreigner pass". I felt like it was "easy" to take street photos in Japan because of the culture of being non confrontational, with that being said it wasn't like I was in everyone's face and invading direct privacy I took photos like I normally do but felt less of a chance for a negative response as I have gotten sometimes before.

Anthony Arevalo: Aside from being completely new Japan was a very comfortable place to photograph once I got comfortable which was probably after our 2nd day? The cultural / language barrier did help but as John Sypal would tell anyone, just wear a smile and you'll be fine photographing on the streets of Japan. I had some people giggle after taking some silly photos or giving me a polite wave. We didn't have too much issues; aside from one time when I popped a flash into a police box and they then stopped us down the street claiming they're doing a random search due to Roppangi having a drug problem at the moment.

ADM: What was the key moment for each of you where you knew "this is something different?" Did you document it in the book?

Andrew Arevalo: I felt it as we arrived at the airport, with immigration and the ads right off the plane. With the people at the train station right outside the airport it feels very clichè to say but it felt like being in another world.

Anthony Arevalo: Honestly I don't think our photos are the most unique in this book. What's different is that usually I feel like most Japan travel books/zines are made by not only people who have gone before, but also have friends (as in probably more than a few?) Before going. This is different ‘cause we're almost completely in the shadow going into this, it's also fully self funded and not being made by a publishing label (no matter how much I joke with Clint about it).

ADM: I noticed you both seem to stick with black and white for most of the book, but there's a good bit of color mixed in -- is this an intentional commentary, or is it in line with both of your regular shooting styles?

Andrew Arevalo: Most of the b&w photos are mine, as that has been my preference for the last couple of years. But with hopes of the Cherry Blossoms blooming (we had just missed the big bloom as we were leaving) I knew I needed at least a couple of rolls of color but looking back at it now the high contrast flash stuff I had gotten with Cherry Blossoms in the background I yet again do not see a NEED for color film anywhere.

Anthony Arevalo: The fact that it's mostly black and white is mostly cause of Andrew. He has been sticking to just black and white film for a little more than a year. I like to mix it up, I usually don't shoot the same film twice in a row and I like to alternate between color and b&w. So by that logic the book is probably 3/4 b&w. I shot 7 rolls of color and 7 of black and white.

ADM: Looking forward, you're both headed back to japan again this year -- will you make another volume of the book? What do you think will be different this time around?

Andrew Arevalo: I don't believe we'll make Gaijin a series but rather produce something else. This time around we are going with a couple of friends from Middle School that will be visiting for the first time and take photos as well. We will be making something less serious and simpler as a group.

Anthony Arevalo: Everyone has been asking if we are going to expand on our book or do another volume since we haven't printed our current one. No we're not going to expand or continue our book Gaijin. Gaijin is meant, at least to me, a one off chapter in our journey of self discovery. What's different this time around is we're going to Japan this time with our childhood friends Yao and Ernesto. While we are planning to make a zine vs a book this time it will definitely be different. It'll be more of a travel log/Journal vs a photo essay of sort that we are currently working on.

ADM: For someone on the fence about taking on a big trip or a project during a big trip like that, that requires them to take a leap of faith, what advice can you give?

Andrew Arevalo: You can't ever produce something unless you take the steps into the process. But for our project it grew naturally. As photographers that are fans of anything printed matter we naturally knew we would take a ton of photos and they would need a home.

Anthony Arevalo: Don't over think it. All I knew I want to do before getting on the plane was I wanted to make a book and that I want to have a show to release it if possible. I bugged so many people about things before I even had anything to show them. The only advice I can give is just shoot. Shoot and figure it out later, everything will form eventually. Give it as much time as you think it needs. The only practical advice I can give is if you have a issue with the sheer amount of stuff you have like I did, try removing things that don't meet a common theme, go through your selection serval times and then after you do don't look at it for a while and come back to it after the honeymoon phase is over.

ADM: When can we expect gaijin to release? What plans do you have for the book -- I know you'd mentioned a gallery show? Where can we buy a copy?

Andrew Arevalo: We have yet to settle on a release date yet. Trying to figure out the best time to drop all of the money on printing and setting a date for the show is what's keeping us back but we are very close to finalizing! It will definitely be this year I hope. The plan is to have the show as a release party and sell the books there, with a dvd of b side moments on Super 8 by Anthony and some other unique gifts to go with the book. If we happen to have any left overs after the show we will sell them through Instagram to anyone interested and a few through These Days where we will hopefully have the show but it will be a somewhat limited run.

Anthony Arevalo: Hopefully we'll have plans for a show end of February if somehow possible, if not it will be after March. I want the book to release at the time of said show. Obviously you can buy a copy at the show, if not we're hoping to leave a few at These Days in downtown for them to sale. Other than that you'll just have to ask us directly to get one. We're assuming mostly friends will be purchasing copies of our books so thank you in advance for your interest. Books are going to be bundled with a DVD of super8 footage I took on the trip and hopefully we'll be able to included a couple of postcards as well. Once again thank you to Andrew for having us!!!

FLORA: Adrienne Hulme

February 09, 2020 in interview

FLORA: Adrienne Hulme

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Hi Adrienne! Thanks for agreeing to do this interview. Could you introduce yourself and describe your photowork?

Adrienne Hulme (AH): Hello, I'm Adrienne, and I live in San Diego now but am originally from Portland, Oregon. I've been taking photos since I was 9 years old, and my purpose in my photography since then has always been to capture the beauty that I see around me. My subject matter is actually rarely people; I usually just take photos of "ordinary" things I see around me, but I like to capture them in a unique way that highlights the beauty in them that others might not notice. I focus a lot on light, textures, angles, and closeups.

ADM: You do a lot with multiple exposures, is that central to the zine? how did you get into doing them?

AH: Yeah so this zine is actually all multiple exposures. It's really the first time that I've made an effort to photograph people; particularly for a personal project. I started wanting to experiment with double exposures when I started getting back into film within the past few years, but since it's film and it's not cheap, I didn't really want to try it if I had no idea how to do it, and waste film. This last year though, I went to The Darkroom Lab's Film Photography Paideia and took a workshop on double exposures with Trev Lee and Aaron Checkwood, and between that and some extra tips from my muse Starla Little, I felt ready to attempt some. Starla is a double exposure queen, and she was also my first model, so she helped me out a ton with the whole process.

ADM: Related to the above -- you shoot a mix of film and digital. Do you find your personal work tends more towards one or the other? If so why.

AH: I definitely shoot mostly film for personal stuff. I started out on film when I was little, but digital cameras were becoming a thing so I switched shortly thereafter, and had been only shooting digital for years. I bought a Mini Diana camera when those were getting popular, but didn't shoot it much because I didn't have a film community in Portland. I bought a Minolta srt-100 at a studio sale a photographer had here in San Diego, still didn't shoot it much for a year, then found Beers and Cameras, got involved with that, and got back into film. I was still shooting a ton of digital all the time, but shooting more film has made me take more time with my shots and slow down a bunch, so I don't shoot as much as I did before. I'm a lot more intentional when I take photos now, so I don't need to take a ton of digital photos of everything, and I prefer the look of film (and not having to edit photos), so if I see something that I want to capture and it's important to me, I shoot it on film. Also all of my personal projects are on film. It's just more beautiful to me.

ADM: Do you have a typical shooting pattern? what does a typical shoot day look like for you?

AH: Not really. Most of the time I'm just shooting what I see. For my actual shoots with people, like the double exposures in the zine, I plan out how I want it to look in advance, and communicate my vision to the model so they can prepare, but on the day of I pretty much go with the flow. My first double exposure shoot I did actually have terrible anxiety because it was my first time shooting a model in studio as well as my first time doing double exposures, so I pretty much had anxiety dreams about every possible thing going wrong for the shoot the night before, culminating in the entire world being engulfed in flames. So then of course I was super nervous up until the shoot, so I was really grateful the model was Starla who is great at posing but also could give me tips about the shooting. After that though it's been great! I just have my generic idea of what it's going to look like but then just see where it goes. Everything just falls into place.

ADM: What drove you to do a zine comprised specifically or focused on Multiple exposures - or what was the inspiration or the thought behind combing models with overlay (underlay?) of flowers?

AH: I've always been obsessed with flowers, they're one of my favorite things in the world. My inspiration for my double exposures was Starla's double exposures of models with flowers. She also has some amazing double exposures with things other than flowers, but I mostly stuck to flowers and plants since they're my favorite. I did try one or two other things on my rolls, but they didn't turn out well. Flowers lend themselves quite nicely to double exposures, especially with models. They give a feeling of fairies or nymphs or something, which are also my favorite. As far as focusing the zine on them - it's really my first cohesive body of work. I actually had no plans to do a zine for a while, because it's not really my thing, but also because I had no idea what to put in it. To me zines have to have a theme, and I didn't have anything I felt like I could compile into a zine. I have received a ton of positive feedback on the double exposures though, so I finally decided this was something worthy of a zine.

ADM: What was your process like, putting the exposures together? did you plan out which model/setting would go with which flower?

AH: I actually did very little planning. I'm thinking in the future I should do one where I write down what each shot was so that I can carefully plan them out, but on these I just had a general idea of what I had done on the first exposure. On 3 out of 4 of the rolls, I shot the models first, and since I would shoot in a certain spot, then move to something else, I had an idea of how I did that when I shot the flowers. On the other one where I shot the flowers first, most of the shots were random, but then I did some with a black background at the end, so I had that in mind when shooting the model on that one. I also exposed a certain way when shooting the models so that the flowers would show up a certain way. I'm also aware that I usually center a main flower in the middle, as well as the model's face or whole body, so they usually line up. Not everything turned out great, but most of it turned out pretty well. It ends up being a big surprise and pretty exciting when I finally get to see them, and some of them turn out way better than expected, and it's kind of like Christmas, haha.

ADM: Do you have more projects like this on the way, or are you more focused on daily shooting at this point?

AH: I have another roll of double exposures I'm working on that will be different, because it's portraits, all different people (which is why it's taking me forever), black and white, and silhouettes. I'm really excited for that one, but I have to hurry up and finish it! I definitely want to do more experimenting with similar stuff, but I need to think of some new ideas. I've been doing a bit more casual shooting otherwise right now, because I've had a lot of other stuff going on.

ADM: What was the layout process like for your zine? How did you decide to sequence your images in the manner you did?

AH: I selected my favorite images that I wanted to use in the zine first, which was more than what I needed. I had my MOST favorite images that I definitely wanted to include, and then some that I liked that weren't as important to fit in there if I ran out of room. Since most of them were portrait orientation, I wanted to have each pair that you would see together to go together in some way, so some didn't make it because they didn't have a good match. Two that are favorites went on the front and back. The actual order wasn't as important to me though, I basically just started picking out pairs and putting them in. I did try to mix it up as far as the models and how the images look, as well as throw in a couple landscape oriented shots.

ADM: You mention a strong love of flowers and fairies, as well as Starla Little's double exposures as influences -- what are your other influences in photography, or art, and were there any specific influences artistic or otherwise for this project?

AH: I've actually never really tried to draw inspiration from other artists or photographers. I have favorite artists and photographers, but I've never tried to say "I admire this person's style, and I'd like mine to be like theirs." I obviously can't isolate myself from seeing things and retaining that when I'm making my own art, but I try to come up with my own ideas and style. Everything I've seen in my life is a general influence, but I don't reference anything specifically when I create things.

ADM: That's interesting that you were reluctant to do a zine - you mention getting praise on double exposures -- out of curiosity why weren't zines your thing? Outside of praise on the double exposures was there anything else that pushed you over the edge to go make this zine?

AH: I always want photos to look their best, and by nature, zines are not really great quality. I'd rather see and make larger prints on nice photo paper or canvas or metal or something that makes them look amazing. The reason I chose to do it is that the community of photographers I'm in is really into zines, and several people in the group have already made some, so it's kinda a thing that everyone in the group aspires to. So I knew that they would all be supportive if I did one, I just didn't know what to put in one before I did the double exposures.

ADM: For those who haven't worked with a model before, but are curious about that process, can you give any tips or advice?

AH: Two of mine were pretty informal because they were friends, and then one was a professional model that I've been following on instagram because another film photographer I follow shot with her, and I love her look. She had posted that she was doing a reduced rate for a month, so I just responded to her story! She was pretty easy to work with too, so I still have no idea how it works normally, ha. I do have a model release that I use for stock photos, which I got off Adobe, and I had her sign that, but you don't need them usually to print photos. I still think it's nice to have a model release for professionals so that your bases are covered. Definitely communicate with them before the shoot what look you're going for (unless you are providing wardrobe and makeup), and if you want to do nudes, that's another important thing you'll have to discuss first. I don't really have any other tips, because mine were all super easy to work with! Definitely don't underestimate their worth though, because having a model that knows how to pose themselves will make your life so much easier!

ADM: Where can people go buy your zine, and see more of your work? I know the zine was on kickstarter - do you, or will you have extra copies available for purchase?

AH: I will have extras, I will probably be putting some up on my Etsy, which is at https://www.etsy.com/shop/LysBleuDesigns or here at: https://lys-bleu-designs.square.site/product/flora/1.

Most of my current work is on my instagram, https://www.instagram.com/bluelily52

Pure Nature, Accept no Less: Brendon Holt on Landscape Photography

February 02, 2020 in interview

Pure Nature, Accept no Less: Brendon Holt on Landscape Photography

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Welcome back to Frozenwaste.land Brendon! We’re here talking about Landscape in 2020 this week:

As of right now, how do you define "landscape" and "landscape photography?"

What do they mean to you, and what is your baseline approach and philosophy behind your photography practice?

Brendon Holt (BH): Well, lemme work my way to an answer by telling you what I think landscape photography isn't.

I don't think that cityscapes are landscape photographs, they're just that, cityscapes. Let's just get that out of the way. I have always found that angle to be a gross perversion of the term. I also do not really consider a lot of new-topographics stuff to be landscape photography. While some of it does deal either implicitly or explicitly with the land á la Robert Adams, I don't consider it to constitute landscape work in the stricter sense, as important as that work is.

I suppose this makes me something of a purist or a stubborn nineteenth century romanticist holdout or something but it leaves me with an understanding of the true subject of landscape photography to be the land itself. Not the landscape as modified or influenced by human activity, and most certainly not urban/cityscape work.

So, landscapes and landscape photography, to me, deals with "the inhuman," a term I will borrow from the American poet Robinson Jeffers which refers simply to the vast realm of non-human nature. It is non-human nature itself considered as the subject of photography.

Furthermore as a medium I understand landscape photography as a channel for me to try and express, in the photographic form, the spiritual or existential depths of these kinds of transcendent experiences of the world beyond our modern humanistic self obsession. This component really constitutes the raison d'être of my work, to be honest. Photography in general is just a means to an end for me, and that end is turning our eyes from the dark abyss of human subjectivity to the vast glory outside ourselves. I could care less about photography as some abstract end in itself. That entire approach strikes me as absolutely vapid. Photography for what? The sake of photography? Images for the sake of images. That's an absolutely vacuous approach. My philosophical and spiritual proselytizing is intimately wedded to my photographic work. Photography, and landscape photography specifically, is just the visual megaphone I use most.

ADM: I guess in that sense, you view Urban Landscape, etc, as really more about anthropology and architecture at the end of the day - rather than nature, or nature in true fashion?

Following that up, I've found, in my own landscape practice -- or at least within the confines of the modern/postmodern art/instagram landscape that landscape has slowly come to mean, colloquially, a very specific aesthetic - this sort of superficially epic, highly saturated, glossy, and frequently strangely tinted view of nature.

While I’m aware there’s definitely other takes on landscape - this is for sure the most popular take right now, outside of the “fine art” bubble. I think this is a huge impediment to landscape as a topic of discussion, and furthering and deepening the dialogue around it.

I’d be curious to get your perspective on that aesthetic, what it’s origins are, why it continues to be so prevalent, and what it means for your own practice, and other artists working in landscape right now?

BH: Yeah, I can get mostly on board with that characterization of cityscapes, new topographics, et al. Per the landscape aesthetic, I definitely agree with your characterizations. I think the term we could use to encapsulate the aesthetic and all the features that you've pointed out is "hyperrealism." It all feels a bit like taking the world and cranking it up to 11 so that we're left with this "strangely tinted" presentation of nature, as you said (If anyone is unfamiliar with what we're talking about just take a trip over to 500px or something and search for the most popular work in the landscape category, it abounds there).

And as you also said, its entrenchment as the standard for landscape photography is deeply problematic for anyone trying to engage with the subject/genre in ways beyond that very limited aesthetic. Work trying to deal with the subject/genre of the landscape in ways outside that aesthetic is quite commonly ghettoized for not toeing the line of that codified understanding of "good landscape photography." Maybe the saving grace of the fine art bubble is that it can still serve as a refuge for work that's been ostracized from the popular canons, even if it harbors a bunch of bullshit too.

My personal relationship with the whole aesthetic and the genre of contemporary landscape work in general is, well, contentious. I find the aesthetic formulaic to the point of sterility and ubiquitous to the point of exhausting. The same light, the same subjects, the same compositional choices, the same basic formulaic images repeated over, and over, and over. It has been repeated ad nauseam in landscape circles since it was popularized by the dissemination of photographs from the likes of Galen Rowell, which is where I personally see its origins. To be fair there was color landscape work before Rowell, such as Eliot Porter and Philip Hyde's work (which I think is all beautiful), but Rowell's work begins to take landscape photography in an entirely different direction that tends toward the kind of hyperrealism that is so prevalent today (and digital photographic technologies have only made that move toward hyperrealism easier).

I'm not sure why the whole aesthetic has become so firmly rooted in the collective consciousness of landscape photography, personally. Obviously it's just a truism that aesthetic trends happen but trying to work out the processes and mechanisms by which any aesthetic trend happens is a gigantic can of worms that could probably encompass its own essay. Regardless of how or why this aesthetic has become so entrenched, it's an issue that anyone working in the genre today has to confront. As a general rule my advice to anyone working within any genre of photography is to forego the easier path of ready-made aesthetics and focus all their efforts on their own vision. Speaking personally, when I first started making images I turned to that culturally established norm of landscape images as a guide for how I made images. I knew I loved the landscape but as a new photographer I didn't really know how to go about translating my experiences into a photograph so the popular aesthetic became my guide as I learned photography. Ultimately, however, if you have any modicum of individual vision that approach can't but begin to feel hollow and empty and you have to set off on the harder but more meaningful path of catering to your own vision. I had to take that step, and reflect on what it was I myself wanted to say and show with my images and choose to follow that path rather than the path set for me by the dominant approach to the genre. I think this is the path that anyone working in landscape photography today has to take unless color-by-number photography is all they're looking to do.

AM: That’s a really great insight into working practice or an insight into where to go when starting landscape. Your work and your philosophy, both as you’ve stated and as it reads in your images is deeply rooted spiritualism of nature and the land; but what other topics would you like to see discussed in the genre, or adjacent to the genre as you’ve defined it? I’d be curious to know if there are any aesthetics, non-mainstream (or non-mainstream within the fine-art bubble) that you think are under utilised or that could be better explored?

BH: Well, my engagement with landscape work is admittedly pretty single-minded, maybe to the point of parochialism, haha. So outside of rekindling the spiritual dimensions of our experience of nature I haven't really given the other thematic avenues of the genre too much thought.

Off the cuff issues of ecology, conservation, the philosophy of nature (ontological reflections about the "being" of nature), etc. come to mind. I'm not naively parochial, I do think there is a wealth of other themes that could be dealt with in the context of landscape photography, even in the narrower sense that I've defined it. I just haven't really spent too much time following those avenues because so much of my focus is honed in to the spiritual/religious/existential angles of our engagement with the land.

As to the question of aesthetics, I must also admit that my aforementioned parochialism means I'm not super familiar with aesthetic trends, especially not the obscure ones of the fine art world. But as to what I'd like to see explored I think I could offer a vague gesture toward those aesthetics that eschew those codified formulas of the popular landscape aesthetic in order to break open new avenues for rethinking our artistic engagement with the land.

One example of that comes to mind is landscape work that trades the "Iconic Landscape" approach of Ansel Adams and Co for a more down-to-earth, intimate approach. Less the iconized nature of Yosemite National Park and more intimate reflections on the smaller, quaint landscapes around us. We might also think of the work of someone like Eliot Porter as an example of work that sidesteps a lot of the dominant aesthetic cues. In Eliot Porter we find less of the clean and formalized nature of the dominant aesthetic and more of an honest encounter with the real chaos and complexity of nature that exists beyond the formalizing attempts that exist only within the fabricated frame of the photographer's vision.

I know this answer is kind of vague, but I hope the examples at least help to clarify what I have in mind when I say something like "aesthetics that eschew those codified formulas of the popular landscape aesthetic in order to break open new avenues for rethinking our artistic engagement with the land."

ADM: You're usually fairly prolific in one environment at a time (formerly PNW, now Montana) and have expressed a preference to shoot or look at only one area at a time - is there a particular reason or meaning behind that?

BH: Yeah, I definitely prefer to dedicate my time to revisiting a limited number of places over and over rather than constantly seeking out new environments. I find the practice of constantly photographing the next hitherto unvisited location kind of empty. It's the photographic equivalent of a never ending string of one night stands with various landscapes that never really gives you the chance to get to know and connect with any specific place. And given that so much of my work is about trying to rebuild those connections and that rootedness to place that we've lost in the wasteland of modernity, the whole idea of that kind of cosmopolitanism in landscape work has never suited me. Maybe it makes for a dazzling portfolio but if it's all empty what's the point?

And I guess that deeper spiritual urge behind my work is how I came to practice that single minded focus as well. My photographic practice has never really been separate from my own philosophico-spiritual practice and because that reflection on the spiritual importance of the landscape is such an integral part of my own spiritual practice, my photo work has always reflected that.

ADM: (A little redundant -- we’ve gotten into it a bit here) but for someone looking to refine their practice and focus it tightly as you have, what advice can you give, or how did you get there?

BH: My advice for people looking to do the same isn't so much going to be photographic advice but advice for the soul, I guess. It's about making that experience and connection to a place primary and the photographic work a kind of secondary outgrowth of those deeply meaningful connections and experiences with a place. And how you find and connect with a place is going to be different for every individual but that the connection comes first is the best I can say. Find some place that speaks to your soul, however that happens for you. Then give your heart to it and let the work come from there.

ADM: Where can we see more of your work, and do you have any projects on the horizon?

BH: You can find my work on Instagram, @bmholt_ and at my website, www.brendonholt.com. I am currently working on assembling two books, Pathways and Cascadia: A Retrospective, both of which can be read about in the "Projects" section of my website. Thank you for the chance to air some of my thoughts with you!

A Whole World Here: Sean Crutchfield (AKA @The_Grain_Silo)

January 26, 2020 in interview

A Whole World Here: Sean Crutchfield (aka @the_grain_silo)

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Hi Sean! Thanks for agreeing to do this interview. For those in the audience who aren't familiar, can you introduce yourself, and give a quick overview of your focus in photography?

Sean Crutchfield (SC): I'm Sean Crutchfield. I'm a photographer living in the rural north Florida area. My Instagram project @the_grain_silo has been running for around four years. When I moved back down south in 2014 I decided to start photographing again after a decade hiatus. I was never comfortable with digital processes so I decided to learn to develop and scan my own film. I mostly shoot landscapes, vernacular architecture, candids and small details but I'm open to take a picture of anything I find interesting. I have a show opening in June at the Wiregrass Museum of Art. I'm very excited about my first show naturally. I also make photo books and zines which I distribute through my website crutchphoto.com.

ADM: I know a lot of people from the south identify with it very strongly, would you call yourself a southern photographer? If so what does that mean to you?

SC: Yes and no. I feel like I would be doing this kind of photography anywhere I found myself, but at the same time where I found myself was back home, so many of these images have an emotional weight to them for me that others who aren't from here might not share. Sometimes I think maybe like Eggleston I want to buck that capital S southern artist label, but my best work so far is here. I DO have some travel projects in mind that would have me leaving my area...we will see. That's such a difficult question! I really raged against that whole southern artist thing back in my previous life as a creative writing student. It irks me because of the stereotypes involved as well as the sort of way work from the south is viewed. And that's a real thing! At my first portfolio review the phrase "lost cause" came up several times. Amazingly they weren't referring to the state of my portfolio which admittedly was pretty low budget with small prints.

SC: I'm keeping those travel ideas close to the vest so to speak. Projects come to me pretty much as an entire idea. Generally I think of them as books. Basically like I want to explore X and show what I found in a form you can hold in your hand.

ADM: That's fair. Does the structure of the book or set come along with the idea? Is there a research and development period for approaching, creating, and sequencing the project -- or does it fit pretty well within the shoot schedule you've previously outlined?

SC: Research and development, definitely. Most of my projects stay in that phase. It all depends on the scope of the project whether or not it takes me outside of my usual schedule.

ADM: In the work you share on instagram you seem to rotate through a lot of equipment, but maintain a fairly similar look, is there a specific reason you rotate through so many different combinations? Does it inform your process?

SC: I really enjoy experimenting. I also have a deep love for mechanical objects. Most of my equipment is fully manual. I guess you could say that I am a gearhead. Honestly I need to sell off some equipment but I haven't brought myself to do it yet. The consistency in my work I think may be down to my eye, my way of composing, and the fact that I control all aspects of the process from shot to print. I've been getting into slide film lately. That's my new obsession. It feels like alchemy when you pull those positives out of the tank.

ADM: In your experimenting - has there ever been a moment or combo, or even a component that either just "clicked" for you, or flipped what you thought you knew about your own photos?

SC: Not with equipment, no. I've definitely come across stuff that is a delight to use just for the feel of the equipment or look of the emulsion but nothing that fundamentally changed anything. Photo books on the other hand, they knock me out. They keep me up nights wondering about their work, my work, and images in general.

AM: Interesting. I've had very much the same experience re: equipment and photo-books. What are some of your favorite Photo-books, and how have they changed your perspective or photography?

SC: Well, I won some money gambling so I bought the full ten volume Democratic Forest. That thing is a monster. I love it. Parr's Common Sense actually was the push I needed to really get into shooting color. I have a little small sized Moriyama book in Japanese that is awesome too. That one is the spiritual ancestor of my first zine.

ADM: What does a typical shoot day look like for you, what's your process of gathering and selecting images like?

SC: 7am: out of bed

8-10am: Coffee and Google maps.

Typically I will pick town(s) in the tri state area (FL/GA/AL), do some street view touring and a little research.

10-sundown: shooting and traveling

Sundown: Warm up my chemicals and begin processing.

Usually around 6 or 7 I am ready to begin scanning and sorting the day's negatives which I will do until they're all ready. I hate having undeveloped film around.

Deciding what to shoot is often just from either walking or driving around and seeing whatever catches my eye. Nothing fancy really, just intuition. Someone gave me a 110 camera when I was a kid, no film just the camera. I feel kind of like placing the world in a frame was burned into my subconscious or something. Often times I pass several scenes that would be perfect, but the light isn't right so I remember where they are and try to determine what time of day/year they would look best for future trips.

ADM: Can you, or would you, give us an overview of your show; Name, theme, specific topic etc? Also do you have any new photobooks or zines in the works?

SC: I'm still changing elements of the show at the moment, choosing images etc. But I can say that I will be using images taken in the area. I am working on the next photo zine at the same time. I would like to have it printed in time for the show but the images would not overlap.

ADM: Maybe a bit on the nose, but do you find that your background in creative writing informs your photography? If so, how so?

SC: Sure it does. I think there is something lyrical or poetic in a good image. And there is a lot of wisdom about editing to be learned from great writers. Ginsburg had this whole deal about "snapshot poetics" that I find kind of interesting too. The rest of that CW nonsense however, the school, the graduate school poetry publishing pyramid scheme...eh.

ADM: What was the specific impetus to pick up a camera again and document Northern Florida?

SC: I just saw so much everywhere that I wanted to capture. That's how it is sometimes when you move back to a place. New eyes. There is a whole world here.

ADM: What advice would you give to someone just starting out in, or on the fence about starting photography, especially someone who's not starting in an urban (or even suburban area)?

SC: Shoot a lot. Expect to go through phases. Look at photo books. Look at rural photography like Bernard Plossu.

ADM: It seems like you've got a pretty firm grasp on your project schedule; is there anything specific that's new we can expect to see from you in 2020, project wise or in general?

SC: Yeah, I'll have at least one new publication up on the website, there is the show at the Wiregrass Museum of Art, and after that I have a project involving quilts from my great-grandmother that I think will be next. My darkroom will be finished by then, so I also expect to make a lot of prints.

ADM: Where can we find more of your work, and pick up your zines, do you have any shows on the horizon?

SC: My website is the best place to see most of my work. crutchphoto.com I also sell my publications and soon I will have photographic prints for sale there as well.

Parting words: Show us what you see.

Heading to Bill's For Cigarettes: Jason Tippet

January 20, 2020 in interview

Heading to Bill's For Cigarettes: Jason Tippet

PC: Jason Tippet - Heading to Bill’s For Cigarettes

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): For those who aren’t familiar with you, would you introduce yourself and describe your work, photography or otherwise?

Jason Tippet (JT): Sure, my name is Jason Tippet, I studied Film & Video at Calarts and concentrated on documentary… I wasn’t one of those kids that grew up wanting to make movies, sort of fell into it. Took a few random classes at a junior college and ended up taking an intro to film class. The teacher was really inspiring and showed me American Movie. That film changed me, I had never seen anything like that… I didn’t know documentaries could follow such characters and watch them while they go after their dreams. My idea of documentary was more educational and this teacher started showing us things like, Billy the Kid and Burden of Dreams… I was obsessed with this type of filmmaking so I began to make my own portraits on friends I had around town in Newhall. I don’t think I have it anymore… I wish I did, but the short film that got me into Calarts was about this guy I worked with at Michael’s Arts & Crafts. He worked in the shipping department and would take these six beer lunches across the street at this mexican spot and was off and on dating this girl who worked in porn. He’d send us links to her work which confused me, but now I’m thinking he was just proud of her… I appreciate that, it’s important to be supportive in a relationship.

Fast forward a few years later and it was my final semester of Calarts. I finished this ten minute short documentary, called Thompson that played Sundance and won the Jury Award at SXSW. I met Derek Waters (Drunk History) at Sundance and when we got back we started on our first feature together called Only the Young. Oscilloscope distributed that and PBS and Amazon bought it… if you have Amazon Prime you can watch it, I think it’s still on there.

Photography came after making Only the Young... at the time, I wasn’t as excited about making movies and discovered photo books through Liza Mandelup (Jawline) and Carl McLaughlin. My still photos are pretty different from how I’d photograph a movie. With my photography I’m not into cinematic shots, I appreciate more gritty snap shots that might be a bit soft or maybe the framing is slightly off, not on purpose but because something is happening right that second and you just have to get that shot off before that moment disappears. I just want to document people and things that entertain me… if I didn’t have a camera I’d still enjoy these moments, but I like being able to share them with other people since they usually put me in such a good mood.

ADM: Do you find your photography informs your filmmaking and vice-versa? If so, how?

JT: The thing that connects my photography and filmmaking is the type of people I’m wanting to document. The people I take photos of I’d love to make movies about, I just don’t have time. I appreciate people who aren’t self-aware and just do their own thing. I met this guy the other day who I’d love to make a short about… this fifty year old Italian guy... he got in a car accident and feels like his lawyer owes him money, so he’s saving up money to buy a gun to go after his lawyer. Then starts telling me he’s gonna take a bus to vegas and put money down on this soccer game and if he wins he’ll have enough to buy a gun. He mentioned I should come along if I wanted to make a few extra bucks, cause this bet was a sure thing… I really wanted to join him but unfortunately had to decline, I had work, and as I’m writing this I hate myself for not going. But, he let me take his portrait before I left… haven’t seen him since. Luck might not have been on his side in Vegas.

ADM: What was the inspiration to go forward and make a full photobook; and what was your shooting process like -- Did the concept for the book materialize naturally, or did you conceptualize first, then gather the images?

JT: Really, it started with an idea I had for a second feature film that I wasn’t able to make. I wanted to make this documentary about these two old men that would go to the Santa Anita Horse Tracks every Friday. I couldn’t find funding (which is wild, who doesn’t want to watch two old men hanging out at the horse tracks), so while looking through a photo book at my buddy Carl’s house I thought that might be a nice way to cover it, by making a book. Liza Mandelup let me borrow her Mamiya 7 and I started going every weekend with my buddy Nick Thorburn… we’re recording audio to make a soundscape record to play while you flip through the book. That’s turned into a longer project that I’m still working on but began to notice the same things I loved about the track were going on in my neighborhood of Atwater Village. I thought I’d maybe try making something small, but the years went by and I accumulated a good chunk of photos, so just went into making an 80 page book.

ADM: Before working on the book, had you done any zinemaking, or is this the first time you’ve assembled a body of photos like this?

JT: Haha, this question is making me realize how out of order I’ve done this whole thing. I haven’t made a zine and I haven’t done a gallery show of my work, no one has ever hired me to take a photo, I really went into this knowing nothing about the photography industry, which I think is fine, we figured it out. Oscilloscope is one of my favorite companies to work with and it’s been nice slowly figuring this out with them. And through the book, Noh/Wave, a gallery in Little Tokyo is gonna include me in a street photography show they’re doing… so pretty excited to be apart of that.

But, yeah… this is my first attempt at putting out my photography. I’m a bit impatient so just went for it, with making movies I’m the same way… I don’t want to rely on other people for money or equipment or labor, I figured out how to make movies by myself and I really enjoy that I don’t need to rely on anyone to take photos. This might not be the right approach for every project, but I enjoy just getting out there and doing it myself. Sure you can wait and save up and buy the camera you’ve dreamed of shooting with, or the lenses you want to make a movie with but at the end of the day if you’re just waiting on these things it starts to feel like excuses. The photos I shot for the book are all on a point and shoot 35mm camera. I just went out and did the work.... I didn’t approach Oscilloscope until I had 90% of the photos taken and then we narrowed it down and I went out and took more shots of things we thought were missing. But, if Oscilloscope didn’t want to do it I was still gonna put it out somehow… but so thankful I got to work with them again. I feel like their stepchild that they introduce as their natural born son.

ADM: How did you finalize the selection for Heading To Bill’s, and what was the editing process like?

JT: I printed out 4x6 shots of all the photos I was considering and began to make pairs on my wall. Then I’d take photos on my phone of the pairs and send them to the Designer, Matt Ferrin to get his opinion. That part took a few months before we were happy. I was still going out shooting during this time so was cycling some newer shots in to see if they worked better. Then, once we were happy I sent it to a select few people I really trust and asked them what wasn’t working pairing wise and what photos just aren’t as strong. After getting back the notes, we re edited the order and sent it back out. This took another month before I was happy and by this point Oscilloscope needed the final version… if they didn’t give me a deadline I probably would still be working on it.

I’m proud of what we put together, it’s so rewarding to finish a project. I really enjoyed this whole process, looking forward to put out my next photo book, My Cousin’s Second Wedding… I was asked to take photos for my cousins wedding last minute so decided to take really unflattering shots… she forgave me, would probably be a different story if it was her first wedding.

ADM: What advice would you give to someone on the fence about, or just starting, a longer term photo or documentary project?

JT: Well… if you’re on the fence, don’t do it. Starting a longer project is an endurance test, the hardest thing is to stay excited about the project and continue to be focused. Turning it into a habit helps. For example, I just knew that if the horse tracks were open on Sunday, I was going. Friends would join me here and there, but it’s something I looked forward to. I’d take the top off my old 85 Mercedes, get a coffee and head towards Santa Anita. If you’re not documenting something you absolutely love or are passionate about, I wouldn’t do it. You’re going to be spending a lot of time with that subject matter to make memorable work.

Also, there’s no money in this, it’s an expensive hobby... so really this just has to be for you and people who appreciate your work. That said, I don’t mean that in a negative way, I need projects like this, not everything needs to make money. For me it was a nice way to get rid of anxiety… put in my headphones, listen to an audio book, get some steps in for an hour or two, and take a few shots. And by the end of my walk, the sun would be going behind Griffith Park, and the Dodgers were about to run out onto the field, and I’d be ordering my first beer, so not a terrible way to end a day off... it all worked out. Actually, I take that back, almost everything worked out, I hope we get another shot at the Houston Astericks in a World Series one day.

ADM: Where can we find your work? ie purchase copies of Bill's, and do you have a date for your gallery show?

JT: Only the Young (feature documentary) is on Amazon Prime, feels like I made that another lifetime ago. If you don’t feel like sitting through a feature but still want to check out my work, there’s a few shorts online, My Gal, Rosemarie… Thompson… Describe What You Heard. I’m Directing an episode of Drunk History at the moment, that’ll be out in July.

Oscilloscope’s website is the best spot to buy my book, those have been selling quickly… it’s been a good feeling, glad people are getting a chance to see what I’ve been working so hard on. Been flattered with the response from it.

The gallery show at Noh/Wave doesn’t have a set date yet. I’ll post about it on instagram once I know. But, come say hello if you live in Los Angeles, always enjoy meeting people in the photography community out here… Like meeting you Andrew, was so nice hanging with you at Tee Gee, I gotta make that happen more often. I appreciate what you do out here and can’t thank you enough for your support.

ADM: Thanks for agreeing to do this! Happy to have had you/support where I can!

Landscapes of Nostalgia, and Beyond: Karl Bailey

January 08, 2020 in interview

Landscapes of Nostalgia, and beyond: Karl Bailey on nostalgia, travel, and the zine.

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): Hi Karl, thanks for doing this interview. For those who aren't familiar with you and your work can you please introduce yourself, and describe your work a little bit?

Karl Bailey (KB): Hi, my name’s Karl Bailey, I'm 28 and live in Portsmouth which is a sea city on the south coast of the UK.

A lot of my work is about looking backwards. Many of the locations I've shot at have been inspired by or even from, my own childhood. I'm also keen to preserve and document history and the many changes that we observe over our lifetimes. Ultimately I wouldn't say I aim to have a specific style of work or shoot with a style in mind but I'm always told my work evokes nostalgia.

ADM: I'm curious, when did you pick up photography? Mining a little deeper in, do you think it's linked to your focus on nostalgia? and following that up, what specifically about nostalgia do you find so compelling, both individually, and culturally?

KB: My dad took a lot of photos and video and even had his own darkroom at one point, I was always carrying a little point and shoot on family outings, so I think that's how it was picked up/passed on. I got really into it when I was about 15 and studied Media and Photography in college where I got to use the darkroom and shoot video. From that point on I was part of a local video group that made an amateur sci-fi series for small local TV channels, Then I started picking up photo and video work professionally and ended up shooting all sorts, weddings, corporate, promotional etc but it burned me out and I didn't touch a camera for years. When I finally did in 2018 I realised it was the natural thing that was missing from my life. There is definitely a link somewhere down the line, I love the idea of archiving and not letting any part of history slip away, for no one to remember it; the thought that something or someplace has created so many memories for people and could be knocked down with little thought makes me quite sad even if I'm not personally connected.

ADM: What got you into the zine or photobook format?

KB: I love creating and making things, this stemmed from a diy record label I owned with my friend about 10 years ago. We would release music on CD's, Tapes and Vinyl and I was always pushing myself to create interesting and appealing packaging. It just feels natural to carry on that physical aspect in what I do now. Having something to hold and enjoy is really important even more so for photography, printed work is so much better than looking at it on a screen.

ADM: What does a typical shoot day look like for you?

KB: Some days I will carry one camera, and others I will end up carrying too much. Ultimately it's about exploring new places or turning down roads I've never been down before and seeing what will crop up, usually I will walk miles on end as this is the best way to explore. I always carry a camera on me wherever I am so technically everyday could be a shoot day!

ADM: How do you conceptualize your projects, and what's your selection process like?

KB: I've yet to shoot with a project in mind, although this is something I have started exploring just this month. A lot of my projects (then zines) are born from a moment in time that I've been shooting in. Themes and ideas usually come to me once I have the photos and I can tie them in that way. The selection process goes from contact sheets, narrowed down to printed A6 photos and then I lay them out or pin them up, I'll leave them for weeks and slowly look at them every now and then, make notes and finally pick the ones for a project/book... assembly I'll try to find connecting themes and elements depending on how I lay out the book initially.

ADM: Having read All of a Sudden I Miss Everyone, and also having seen work from Greece and End of Summer on your Instagram, it seems like a lot of your work has to do with both travel, resort towns, and decay. What about those subjects do you find so compelling, or what drives you to make projects with those themes?

KB: To most people these things are just ignored, they see the beauty in the shiniest and newest things and not the character that I see when taking these photos, Again it comes down to history and not wanting these things to just be gone one day and for no one to care or see them. Greece was a nostalgia piece for me, I went there as a child and I remembered so much of what it was once and instantly felt the need to document the remnants that were left.

ADM: I know you were living/working in China recently -- do you have an upcoming project with work from there?

KB: This has been my biggest project to date, sifting through 1300 photos to try and get a reasonable number of photos for a project was extremely challenging and daunting.

I currently have 300 A6 photos that I will start laying out for the book and I'll probably end up cutting back at the same time. The project will be one-half of China photos and the other half Hong Kong photos, the China half will be titled 'I don't know why the caged bird sings' which is a social commentary piece on the joy and happiness that I experienced from the populace, despite them living a somewhat oppressed lifestyle under the rule of communism without even really knowing about it. The book will be appearing on Kickstarter in the first quarter of the year and I will be holding a gallery show in my hometown in August.

ADM: Off the some of your other responses you've given, you found your hypothesis for the book after going out and shooting and documenting a lot. Can you speak on what some of the big moments or images you captured were that led you to focus your book on The Joy of the people of Hong Kong and China despite the oppressive nature of their government?

KB: Living in China was such an eye-opener, I strived to understand and talk to as many people as possible about history, culture, family life, politics and the future, I think at the end of it and having experienced some of the more dangerous sides of China It was an almost natural conclusion. Walking around the apartment complexes, going to the food markets and living in the poorer area of the city gave me a real glimpse at the people, sometimes they would come and talk to me, or sometimes we would just communicate solely with body language but most experiences I had were that people seemed happier, more open, more willing to help... it was a lot different to living in England where everyone is so cagey and polite. For Hong Kong it's very different, the city is naturally a mix match of cultures (British/Chinese) and it's totally and utterly unique because of that, it's an amazing and beautiful city with photographic moments to be had around every corner.

AM: For those considering getting into photography -- film or otherwise -- what would advice would you give? Also, for those who might be interested in making a zine, but don't know where to start, do you have any tips?

KB: Just go out and do it! Visit galleries, buy books, find photographers you enjoy, expand your knowledge... don't get hung up on buying gear, don't get hung up on Instagram likes/follows... more importantly, just have fun and use it as a creative outlet... something I think has been somewhat lost in this modern generation. I think understanding design/layout is really important, study from the greats, find your subject or theme for your book, be critical and ask for opinions. Be somewhat sure of yourself and your work, make a zine worthy of owning and not just for the sake of making a zine.

AM: Have you found any particular photobooks or photographers that have strongly influenced your work? If so, who, and can you talk a little bit about why, and what books or work of theirs you'd recommend?

KB: So many photographers, I'm always excited to see old or new work and I love collecting books...

Modern Color by Herzog stood out to me a lot this year which I think is apparent in my 'End of Summer' zine I've also been enjoying books by McCullin, Parr, Laura Wilsons 'That Day' and the Magnum Contact Sheets book. I can't stress how valuable these are to a photographer!

AM: Those are great recommendations. Thanks again for doing this interview! Where can people find and buy your work, either your zines or your prints right now? Do you have any other parting words ? Can we expect you back to talk about "I don't know why the caged bird sings" when it's closer to completion?

KB: www.karlbailey.co.uk for all zines, occasional prints but I tend to put them up as one offs on IG stories (@karlbailey). Thanks for having me on to do this, it's been really fun! I would love to come back when the time comes!

Together, We Wither Away and Know Worries: Dylan Rozzelle

December 18, 2019 in interview

Together, We Wither Away and Know Worries:

Dylan Rozzelle (@objectsofridicule)

Andrew D. McClees (ADM): So, for the readers, Can you introduce yourself, and give a quick overview of your photowork? (beyond the examples we've incorporated here?)

Dylan Rozzelle (DR): I currently live and work out of Richmond, Virginia. My work is entirely based on life as it’s happening around me. I can’t say I’ve ever set out to hone a particular style, I just enjoy documenting things in an unadulterated way. The process of shooting has just become ingrained into my lifestyle. After learning how a camera works, everything else just sort of fell into place for me. Humanity creates my images, I just have to focus and press the button.

ADM: I remember from having talked with you before, your instagram handle "@objectsofridicule" is actually the name of an overall project, is it more your zinemaking/bookmaking output, or your overall body of work? also what's the story behind the Name, and how does it interplay with the work you select for it?

DR: It’s more or less a moniker that just ended up just sticking with me. I like making things for friends and people with similar interests as myself. Photo zines, poetry, pins, patches, anything I was creating and giving out in numbers really, I just started stamping with the name. It was never meant to be taken too seriously, and still isn’t. I’m not trying to create a brand in anyway, it’s just something that’s become an ongoing project -- one that as of recently has shifted away from my own work and moved towards others as well. I have a love/hate relationship with the name, but I think that’s inevitable with anything you’ve submerged yourself into for multiple years, and grown older with.

ADM: From the zines I've read of yours, a lot of your work seems to be done while traveling rather than in any given/set location -- is there a primary reason for that, and what is it specifically that draws you to travel, and how has it influenced your work?

DR: It’s not planned that way specifically. I carry a camera on me at all times, so anywhere I happen to be, I’m taking pictures. Last year a lot of time was spent meandering different countries, so the zines just happened to follow the experiences. When traveling alone, I shoot a lot more, but the focus tends to turn more towards the streets. Being alone and in new places, I find myself less distracted than any other time I’m out shooting, mainly because the only comfort I have is in holding a camera. It’s easy to romanticize new places, though, and shooting daily life is just as important to me.

If you’ve ever gone to a local library and looked through the photo archives of where you’re living, it will teach you not to take for granted what you see on a routine basis. Every city is consistently under construction and will be vastly different decades from now. The hand painted ads, cars, clothing, those things that gives older photographs their charm just happened to be the way life was existing then. There’s no true proof of the past other than the photos that were taken. Time has made mediocre photographs much stronger now than they were when the shutter first opened. Everyone that is documenting the places they have lived will have much more compelling content 40 years from now. The factory your father worked in as a teenager is now a tacky condominium and the record store you used to catch punk shows at is now an Urban Outfitters. You can’t get those stories from street photography in foriegn places. I try to find a balance between the two, because I see the value in both.

AM: Got it. I take it we/I/your audience in general can look forward to at least one, if not more Richmond based zines in the near future? The nod to documenting your life as part of history is interesting -- did you grow up in Richmond?

DR: I have a few things in the works, absolutely. In July I put out a zine titled Together, We Wither Away which is comprised of images from the east coast, with a large focus on Richmond. In the brief period between getting back from overseas to releasing that zine, I had gone home (a town called Norfolk about 100 miles south of Richmond) twice -- both of which were for funerals of people who played valuable roles in my life. As soon as I got back from the second funeral, I formatted that zine and then put it into print. It was an attempt to make a statement against detrimental lifestyles and self-harm, as well as a way to help cope with my grief after their deaths.

Since then I started putting my efforts into a project called Know Worries. They are 4-way collaborative anti-profit zines. Once I curate and publish them, each artist receives 25 copies to do what they will, other than to make money. Know Worries II was released last week.

AM: Your portfolio is entirely black and white, and it has a pretty distinctive edge to it -- how did you settle on it? what were some of your influences for your look?

DR: I shot strictly color through cheap cameras for years. I was soaking films in any chemical I could think of to get bizarre color shifts, and completely destroying emulsions, cross processing as well, just to see what would happen. I didn’t care, I just liked to shoot and experiment. I ended up becoming good friends with a guy who was vastly more knowledgeable than I about photography. He helped guide me towards better cameras and glass, showed me books by the greats and it shifted my focus. That’s when I began to start taking it a little more serious. I switched to black and white because we were processing the film ourselves in my apartment. In turn, the cheaper it is to get images, the more careless and often you can shoot. Good photos are subjective and completely by chance in my experience. The more you shoot, the more chances you have of getting something you’ll be happy with. We ended up living together and turned my bedroom into a darkroom. Fully submerging ourselves into the process. I learned a lot during those times and it helped shape my style for sure. I attribute a lot of where I am today to him. Shout outs to Josie.

I’ve tried shooting color since then, but I just feel like it doesn't carry the same weight and feeling for my own images. I don’t look for colors, I rarely even think about them -- but maybe I’m just too far gone in that thought process. I’m sure it doesn't help that 95% of the books that I buy are black and white. I don't think one is better than the other, I just think it happens to work better for me personally.

Most of the photographers I admire were living and working sometime between the 1970s and the 1990s. Having not lived my youth through those eras and being attracted to the subcultures that sprug during those decades, I’m fortunate for the ones who decided to pick up a camera and were shooting back then. In current times, color point and shoot photography is one of my favorite styles to admire because I know the importance it holds for the future. It plays a large influence in my work even if I’m not doing it. There is nothing about it not to love, and anyone who knocks it is just trying to put themselves on a pedestal. That purist mentality is what ruins art forms and discourages people from getting into it rad stuff -- no matter what scene you’re in, I feel that it almost never does any good. I encourage anyone I meet that shows the slightest interest in photography to buy and a point and shoot with decent glass and just blow through frames to get started. Whether you enjoy color, or black and white, who gives a shit. I think it’s all irrelevant if you’re having fun and it’s going to leave future generations more content to be enamored by. If you don't want to learn the technical side of things, I don't think you should have to. Elitist culture is pathetic. Getting pictures is the point of what we do, right?

ADM: Agreed! That’s really rad -- and a smart suggestion for people thinking about getting into photography, or film photography specifically. Elitist culture makes it really difficult to just get new folks into whatever they’re gatekeeping -- usually to their own detriment. Could you share a few of the books and photographers that you’d admire, and recommend to someone just getting started, that’s been out shooting a fair bit but hasn’t really immersed themselves in the history of photography beyond say instagram (not that there’s anything wrong with that)?

DR: I think it’s important to find out what kind of photography resonates with someone before recommending them too much. I love to read, but I could give a shit less about James Joyce. When it comes to photo books, there’s no shortage of inspiration to be found. The feeling you get flipping through an artist’s book is something the internet cannot give you. The problem with instagram is that it’s far too much content to digest. It’s almost impossible to connect with a viewer, and hold their attention before it’s all lost to the movement of a thumb. Pretty fucking tragic, really. I always recommend going to used bookstores and the library, there’s always new things to be found, plus there’s no need for money if you don’t have it. You will always, without fail, end up inspired to create more compelling work and theorize ideas for new direction in your photographs.

A brief list of people who have personally inspired me:

Tish Murtha, Ray Metzker, Gusmano Cesaretti, Richard Sadler, Andre Kertész, Mary Ellen Mark, Jill Freedman, Richard Kevlar, Helen Levitt, Eikoh Hosoe, Bruce Davidson, Gary Winnogrand, Ralph Gibson, Joseph Koudelka, Lee Friedlander, Ari Marcopulos, Saul Leiter, Julia Gorton, Eugene Richards, Larisa Dryansky, Bill Brandt, Ed Templeton, Ed van der Elsken, Peter Hujar, Nan Goldin, Ken Schles, Robert Frank, Larry Towell, Boogie, Mark Cohen, Jun Abe, Anders Petersen, Mike Brodie, Donna Ferrato, Sylvia Plachy, Bill Daniel, Edward Grazda, Gordon Parks, Elliot Erwitt, this list could never end...

As for books, all of them.

ADM: You mention a strong focus on shooting your life, or humanity making the photos for you, and later go on to say that you’re pretty far gone in the black and white thought process. Can you walk us through what you’re thinking or looking for when shooting and composing your images or is it more gut instinct and small calculations?

DR: It depends on the situation and camera, I suppose. On the street, anything goes. A lot of it is gut instinct, I never really know what I’m looking for, I just know when I see it. I have a good idea of what I want in a frame when the time arises. Sometimes it works, more often than not it doesn’t. Anything that sparks my interest, I’ll shoot a photo of. I’m trying to get better about just taking my friends photos. My 2020 goal is to shoot more medium format portraits.

ADM: We touched on it before, but you make zines fairly regularly, at least once or twice a year -- what’s your process for putting together zines like? What advice would you give someone making their first zine, or even just toying with the idea?

DR: Yea, I actually made 4 this year -- kind wild considering I think they are some of my best work yet. Zines are something I’m constantly thinking about, and always working on ideas for. I have a section in Notes on my phone for titles and concepts. If they will actually come out is a different story, though. I can sit for weeks or months curating zines and playing with InDesign only to scrap it completely and move to something else. That’s just how I work.

As with photography, zines will be a learning process. You don’t have to be great at it, just do it because you want to -- dive in and see what happens. It’s always going to be better than nothing. The best advice I can give is shoot, make, repeat.

And don’t listen to a word people say about photography, including this interview.

ADM: Fair point! Thanks again for the interview! Do you have any parting words? Also where can people buy or trade for your zines (trade especially for Know Worries), and see your work?

DR: Always down for trades, chats, and advice on how to not make money off of photography. @objectsofridicule

Ed. Note: We couldn’t fit all the photos we wanted to here, so we’ve put up a gallery in the “People” section of the website, entitled “Dylan Rozzelle: Portfolio.” Either use the click through menu or click here.